How do you declare war on a state you don’t recognize?
Not sure if you're trying to be clever? You can start a war against anyone or anything.
You can attack anyone or anything but formal declarations of war are usually state actions.
I guess I’m partly being clever and pointing out that Israel is waving this word “war” around very generously right now, because they’re always dramatizing the direness of their situation, mainly for the American audience. But technically they shouldn’t be using this word unless they recognize the state of Palestine, which they have historically refused to do.
So, as usual, they’re trying to have it both ways.
I'm not sure I understand. Does war declaration being a state action require recognition the state of Palestine? Or can they declare war on "Hamas" or any other entity/group of people. Or do they even have to state who they are at war against? Can they just say "we are at war"?
I can't read the article (I just get an HTTP 403 "Forbidden", interesting) but Israel had previously talked about declaring war on Hamas itself.
This isnt a gotcha. Israel does not recognize the legitimacy of the Palestinian state, but they don't like, pretend it doesn't nominally exist. If Hamas considers themselves a legitimate government, they can be declared war against. They're not legitimate, but they still exist.
As an easy example in the US, everyone in the country doubted the legitimacy of the "Autonomous Zone" in Portland, and yet it very definitely was a thing.
...take the War on Christmas, for example
Invade Crimea?
It's a not-so-civil war, if you will
Show me a civil war and I’ll show you a friendly murder.
Wonderful. Now we have two wars that just happen to rile up needless political grandstanding for the uninvolved to fight over, so we wont have to think about the millions of innocents killed in the fighting.
Or any really important issues at home.
I dunno, I do sort of think that the deaths of innocent men, women, and children who lived between two warring nations is a big enough deal for us to set down our current affairs.
Im pissed that instead its going to be used as a proxy argument for ongoing at home political pissing matches.
This should make us pause our issues at home. Instead, its going to be used as fuel for the issues at home.
While millions die.
That's actually a pretty privileged pov. The hierarchy of need isn't very forgiving. When you can't feed your kids, or yourself, it's hard to give all your attention to a war going on across the world. Which is why US leaders should be leading the US first, instead of dragging foreign wars into their debates so they can try to get political points before an election.
We don’t get many declarations of war these days. Usually they are just special military actions, or security operations, or something like that. What makes this different?
Israel is constantly catastrophizing their situation to win sympathy and demonize their enemy. Usually they try to avoid this kind of language because, being the only ones with an organized military, it would be a bad look to be at war with a bunch of refugees. But since they’ve been attacked they’re doing everything they can to paint that attack in the most bombastic terms possible 1) to win sympathy and 2) to justify the military devastation they are about to unleash on a civilian population.
Following our decades-long invasion of Palestine and continually calling for Palestine's removal and the genocide of the Palestinian people, we are now calling it war.
Damn, maybe palestine should have accepted the two state plan in 1947 instead of trying to eliminate all Israeli Jews at the time.
Israel accepted it. Palestine started killing civilians. Then got their asses handed to them repeatedly.
You have to understand though, prior to the UN proposal, it was all just Palestine. Why should the Palestinians have accepted a UN (foreign, primarily western at the time) proposal to give half of their land to a minority who only began immigrating there en masse in the last 50 years? This was the period of decolonization, and while the rest of the Arab world and Africa was gaining their independence, Palestine was just getting a new map drawn on them by their western colonizers.
It’s easy to say with another 70 years of perspective that it didn’t work out for them, but in 1947 Israel was nothing more than an idea championed by a minority of religious extremists, viewed as terrorists even in the west.
Prior to the UN proposal it was a British territory. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
Palestine has never existed as an independent state.
Wow, how gracious of israel, with the backing of the most powerful militaries in the world arrayed against a country without significant military allies, to nominally agree to a two-state plan and then for 75 years violate treaties, kill civilians and constantly invade the other state that essentially can't fight back.
Super brave of them to constantly show force with the US military backing them.
I'm sure Israel appreciates you admiring their genocide.
So their mass murder of civilians will now be under the guise of a war. Sigh
This seems like a really unevenly weighted war. Israel has nukes and is supported by most of the west. Vengeance and violence are also never a good mix so this will likely get ugly fast. It'll be interesting to see where the line is, if it exists at all, on how much violence the West will publicly support.
A community for discussing events around the World
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/