It's funny that leftists call him genocide joe when Trump would be actively worse and offer additional manpower.
Complain and downvote how you like, but consider which candidate you actually have a chance of getting to agree to your point of view.
No shit, Biden is a genocidal asshole but at least he's not trump that's the whole point of the uncommitted campaign
Just because trump is an infinitely low bar doesn’t mean Biden isn’t actively supporting genocide.
I’m sick of seeing “But Trump is worse!!!!!1!” whenever there is a discussion of how fucking terrible Biden can be, especially on his candid genocide support. And the cries from the Democratic party to fall in line behind a president that is failing to support the will of the people in that party is a bit shitty, even though it is inevitable in such a hierarchical power structure.
Like, the problem isn’t “who would support genocide less” it is “why the fuck is the president supporting genocide” and the other question we should be asking is “what is causing us to be in the position that we are debating on who is the lesser evil pro genocide candidate”
Also, I’d like to point out that biden is a hardcore zionist. He will never not be a hardcore zionist. He will never be convinced to stop supporting israel, and we will lucky to even convince him to stop supporting israel until the genocide stops. Or to just call for a ceasefire now.
First pass the post says a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump. Sadly that’s how the system works. You need preferential voting to send a message of displeasure.
girl u may have missed that this was for the primaries, not the general election
You do not understand how the US primary system works.
This was not the general election vote where Biden will face a fascist.
This was a 2nd term president democratic primary, which the incumbent almost always sweeps. This allows for protest voting with no actual repercussions like fascists winning.
They are protesting the active genocide of the Palestinian people, it is worth the effort to try to enact change which no downsides.
I think that's the point behind voting uncommitted in the primary. It's to put some heat on the candidate that actually has the potential to change their mind and do something. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's not as if I'm going to be voting for trump in the actual election and I understand how a 2 party fptp election works enough to put my vote in the "capable of having potential to stop supporting genocide" category.
The Uncommitted Movement's goal to get high uncommitted voter turnout in the primary so that Joe Biden changes his outdated views on Palestine and Israel is great.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren't going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary
Telling people Biden is Genocide Joe isn't a nuanced position. People who think Joe Biden equals genocide aren't voting for him now and aren't voting for him later. An argument that ignores the inherent cognitive dissidence it would take for someone, who believes Joe Biden is directly the cause of Israel's genocide of Palestinians, to vote for Joe Biden is disingenuous.
Truth is, I'm likely going to end up voting for Biden in the fall, because for all his faults, he is infinitely better than Trump. But I want him to fucking sweat in the meantime. Because if he sweats, if he realizes he can't simply take the votes from the left for granted even as he gives nothing to us, maybe he'll fucking start giving something to us.
I have no illusions that he'll do the right thing out of the goodness of his heart, but perhaps he'll do the right thing out of fear of losing.
In my experience most of the people calling him genocide Joe can't vote in US elections.
But yes, their goal is to get Trump elected.
I think the people in this thread aren't Russian bots. That's why I think it's worth arguing with them. If we want Biden to win in November, then calling him Genocide Joe isn't helping.
It’s not a nuanced position, there is genocide of the Palestinian people occurring in Gaza literally right now. They’re actually dying and the US props up the country doing it, it’s clear Biden could and can do much more to stop the genocide. So some people call him “Genocide Joe”, people are being murdered, I assume they think something so striking is fitting. Whole families have been wiped off the face of the earth, some people get radicalized by that I am sure.
Now people who do think he is “Genocide Joe” will not vote for the other guy https://web.archive.org/web/20240306112504/https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905 . Argument is bunk, hell the fascist guy said he’d support completing the genocide completely while Biden holds a line of “secretly I want it to stop” which is “vaguely” better. And if they don’t vote for either because of support for the genocide on both sides, they are not people who care about the country and definitely don’t have well constructed opinions on anything else. (e.g., couldn’t rely on them for a Dem vote if no genocide occurring)
So this argument is just wrong. The crap some Dems wish for, that people shouldn’t protest Biden’s policies at all or else all will fall is inherently flawed - the US democracy is built on free speech and advocating for change. And when a people are being genocided by a US proxy, many think it is worth it to rock the boat in a safe way.
Genocide Joe? The US isn't committing genocide, it isn't even a proxy war. It completely adds a level of responsibility on Biden that isn't his to bare. I'm not saying he has none, but that's farcical.
The US has an outsized influence on Israel. The US bankrolls Israel, and provides weapons. The US provides $4 billion annually for Israel to buy weapons, guaranteed cash for the military. The US is the main trading partner with Israel and provides loans with really low rates. US firms open factories in Israel (like Intel) via direct subsidies to boost the Israel economy. Edit: this was just ran today https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/06/israel-weapons-sales-loophole
The US is clearly in a proxy war with many factions in the Middle East via Israel, as the US props up and enables Israel. The US literally was in a proxy war with the Soviet Union when Israel and Egypt were duking it out. Israel being the US’s proxy in the Middle East did not end just because the Soviet Union ended.
The US (and Biden) has major responsibility, is directly linked, and could exercise a lot of the influence the US pays for to halt the genocide of the Palestinians.
Aw sweet, republican astroturfing post!
You do not understand the US primary system.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
The uncommitted vote in the 2nd term incumbent US Democrat primary, which this me-me depicts, is a safe way to draw attention to the significant need for the US to exercise its power and end the genocide. Biden is not running against anyone with credible support, he will sweep the nomination guaranteed as he is a popular president.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
you don't think calling the man desperately attempting to pull israel back Genocide Joe is gop astroturfing?
like you can assemble an entire argument about the primary process but ignore that aspect?
goddamn that's a useful idiot
What's with all the tankies recently? If they wanted to change things for the better they would organize and vote for biden, even if he sucks. The organizing is the important part anyways, voting is just damage control.
EDIT: In case it was unclear, I do not mean organize to vote for biden.
EDIT: I am an idiot. This is a primary. Don't vote for biden if there is a better candidate.
"Tankie" is when you don't vote for a candidate who supports genocide.
The state of the online "tankie" discourse has never been worse.
People are organizing the uncommitted campaign to get Biden to stop giving billions to support an active genocide
Voting for president is damage control.
Real action is local. And voting local is far more influential in the long run.
You need to vote both.
How about Genocidal GOP or Genocidal 45
Language and words have great power. Walking around attaching the word genocide to a man who has at worse not done enough in a very complex situation will cause great harm to the electorate. You may be propping up the uncommitted vote, but not everyone will understand that, many may just see the genocide and not vote for Biden ever or worse vote for the orange idiot.
Meanwhile you have politicians who will kill Americans with their policies. And you have a potential future president who would put boots on the ground in Gaza and do just about whatever they could to see Ukraine returned to Russia.
Words have power. A simple phrase will stick more than the meaning behind it. There is a reason crooked Hilary worked so well, and no one can tell you why she might be crooked beyond her emails and Benghazi. Even then they only know those words, they don't know the meaning behind them. We need all of the votes we can get in November.
The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.
To me it seems pragmatic and meaningful while still providing space for broader party unity and success. I don’t see how this is being compared with tankie sentiment? Someone might need to ELI5.
edit: one of the accounts i’m seeing exhibit this behavior literally admitted they think anyone who uses the hammer and sickle icon is a tankie. so there we go lol.
I think people calling this tankie don’t understand what a tankie is and don’t understand the primary process in the US.
Tankie = authoritarian communist, they’re down to clown with genocide (ask em about holodomor, tankies will tell you it didn’t happen or the Soviet gov didn’t mean it as a purposeful genocide or some other shit)
Primary process in the US = only Dems vote for Dems, voting uncommitted in just the Democratic presidential primary shows “against genocide” popularity as Biden’s team have good estimates of how many Dems should have voted for him.
Thus the campaign to get people to vote uncommitted in the primary is a way to show Biden directly how many people do not support the US supporting the genocide of the Palestinian people. Which is antithetical to tankie sentiment. And since this is a primary, it is a strong way to show anti-genocide vote numbers without enabling the fascist republican party.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
I can't even tell anymore whether this meme is pro-Democrat or pro-Republican, anti-American, anti-Semitic, post-ironic or just cursed.
Anyone that throws around "Genocide Joe" is a fascist that's trying to undermine the actual presidental election.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
Yeah I just copy and pasted shit I’ve said to others cause people just keep saying the same uninformed shit. People are dying, and the poster is clearly very moved by their plight. It must end, hence the uncommitted vote protest
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
