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I'm with Kira
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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
591 points (96.0% liked)
Risa
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Star Trek memes and shitposts
Come on'n get your jamaharon on! There are no real rules—just don't break the weather control network.
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Ad hominem
It would be more effective to explain how I'm wrong. But if you can't right now, I understand. My comments will still be here tomorrow.
Disingenuous
You don't seem to be in a state of mind for willing absorbtion of information.
Projection
You never offered any information. What evidence suggests I'm not open to it?
In fact, the closest thing to an argument against the idea that anyone made, is that it doesn't scale well. Which is of course true. But this is about the morality of ways to deal with bigots, not the practically.
Well, I'm glad you at least recognize that your solution to bigotry is not practical. I agree that it's a moral ideal, but morality to my mind depends at least as much on effect as intention, which is where practicality comes in, and the fact that showing "unearned compassion" to bigots, at least in the way I typically seem to see that interpreted, just emboldens them and makes life worse for everyone else. The most extreme example of this is, as alluded to, Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler, but we see the same thing play out on a smaller scale frequently.
Most people who discuss morality with any frequency will probably tell you that whether or not you know the outcome of an action ahead of time does impact its morality. So I would argue, because we know that showing bigots "unearned compassion" rather than societally refusing to tolerate their behavior invariably has a net negative impact on those who are the targets of their bigotry, that would render it not the moral ideal we might like it to be.
Please observe the paradox of tolerance.
I suppose I'm marking a difference between tolerating bigots, and tolerating bigotry. Respecting and accepting people with bigoted ideas, is very different from respecting and accepting the ideas themselves. Part of being a friend, is point out when that friend is being dick. That would still hold true here.
I see your problem.
You don't believe people when they tell you who they are. You imagine their actions and their beliefs to be separate from the individual even though they are the beliefs and actions of the individual. Your idealism doesn't reflect reality.