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Why People Say Capitalism is Violent
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
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Leftism
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The state is violent and community is violent and privacy is violent
Can anyone come up with an ideology that is not violent and can actually be implemented in the real world with real actors that aren't smelling roses and giving out hugs?
Personally, I think the only reason evil exists is because the world is unfair, some are advantageous and some are not. This causes people to refuse to "play" fairly which causes bad behaviors such as deception, exploitation, murder, etc. The only way to eliminate or reduce evil is to make the world fairer. One of the ways I can think of is for the fortunate to help the unfortunate.
I don't believe this to be true. Fairness only matters to people who value fairness. Many people value fairness, but it is irrational to believe that everyone values fairness. Some, not most or even many, don't care about fairness fundamentally. For these people, interesting fairness does nothing for them. These are the people we need to protect others from while also providing an environment that didn't necessarily mean removing or killing them.
But what causes people to value fairness so little or so much? When I support equality, I don't just mean wealth or resources, but everything, and in this case it's intellect or knowledge. When people have different intellect or knowledge, there is bound to be misunderstanding or miscommunication or other issues. People who have low empathy or are ignorant or dumb to realize how fairness affects people can make things worse. I guess in this case we can make everyone equally smart so no one can deceive and no more misunderstanding. Can't make smart people dumber so I suggest making dumb people smarter which is to give education to those who need it.
You answered it yourself, but I will elaborate.
Humans are different between individuals. Some people are dumb. Some people are mean. Some people are evil. Fundamentally the paradox of tolerance applies to fairness as well.
Well you wouldn't like this answer probably. I suggest to eliminate the differences but i think it's impossible. As long as there is positive, there is negative. To eliminate the negative is to eliminate the positive too, which is neutral and can make life very dull. So my other suggestion is quite radical which is to eliminate life itself. Or just make life or the world as fair as possible even if it's impossible.
Ah, good old fashioned Nihilism. Another thing that I think is silly.
It is irrelevant what you think personally. Other people don't necessarily think those things and assuming that they will or do abide by your positions without an incentive is folly.
I'm simply just providing my solutions or opinions. Better than nothing i guess, unless you have a better plan.
Of course, it's impossible to please everyone. Can't take some without losing some. So maybe just brute force it? Idk.
So your suggestion is to force people to agree with you and to submit to your interpretation of fairness... with violence...
Well the force part is not about equality, but to end all life.
So your solution is to kill everyone because some people disagree with you?
Wdym people disagree with me? I believe inequality is what causes evil to exist in this world, and to make everything equal might be impossible, or even if it is, life will be extremely boring It might be impossible to achieve happiness, because everything is the same. A world without pain or suffering but also devoid of happiness. I suggest to eliminate every life to eliminate suffering.
I don't even know where to go from here... you are proposing to exterminate all human life because some things are unfair as you see it and you think that forcing, with violence, your vision of fairness will cause the world to be boring... so nobody deserves to live.
Literally the plot of a Pokémon game, by the way; that's the level of emotional maturity on display here.
Humans are the ones that create video games, including Pokemon. Are you implying that the person who's capable of creating video games can't have rational thinking and create interesting plots to make the game more engaging or interesting? And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other games that support or at least implement the idea of antinatalism for the plot. And seriously, Pokemon is the first thing you thought of from a video game? You don't have good taste, do you?
Firstly, I propose to exterminate every life, not just humans. We as humans didn't even consider other species just because we're superior, or lucky in evolution i guess. Secondly, unfairness is a fact, not simply because the way i see it. You can't see the world from your perspective only. Think about the unfortunate people who live in poverty or starvation or in other unfortunate situations, especially those who live in the third world country. You may think that those people deserve to be put in such situations because they choose to be in such situations, but I don't believe in free will. Do you even wonder why people make certain choices and not the other choices? Everyone is unique for a reason. And I didn't say nobody deserves to live, more like nobody deserves to suffer unfairly. And I'm suggesting to end life, not forcing it. Who knows, maybe life will end itself, from climate change or nuclear war or when the sun or every star in the universe dies. Some people and even other animals killed themselves for whatever reason.
I'm sorry, but there is almost nothing of value in this diatribe and I see no value in continuing to talk about any of these... points.
Can't say I respect your opinion, but your life, your choice i guess. I'm simply trying to disprove your claims, can't say what I comment is 100% true, just simply my opinions. I understand if some people choose to be ignorant. Ignorance is a bliss after all.
Wait... you are trying to disprove my claim that there would be people with antisocial traits even in a society that is based on fairness? That is what you are trying to do? Holy hell...
I'm sorry. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Which claim are you talking about previously? And I don't know what you mean by what I'm trying to do. All I was doing is simply providing my opinions or solutions to remove or reduce evil in this world. Assuming full equality has been achieved, then there should be no reason for anyone to have antisocial behavior.
You... honestly don't understand humans very well do you.
Let's just use the extreme case; are you familiar with mental disorders?
I think we're getting sidetracked here. I am familiar with some of them, or if I don't, I can just google or use AI. Still, you haven't answer my previous question.
If you think this is getting sidetracked...
I'm sorry, but conversation with you is incredibly difficult. I can't tell if you have a coherent position or capable of creating a cogent argument... I'm not sure you understand your own position well enough to convey it to another much less consider the counter position I presented.
I'm sorry, I'm going to offend you for personal reasons. It's possible that you're denying your intellectual incapability due to your ego by saying that I'm unable to converse in a way that you would understand instead of taking time to understand yourself. It's not like I'm using fancy words unlike you. Not to mention that you're taking my comments way out of context most of the time, and when I try to disprove your claims, you don't even try to challenge me back or argue reasonably and instead create excuses such as "my points are meaningless" or "I'm unable to converse properly". And you're being hypocritical by saying my comments are "diatribe". I tried to make most of my comments except this one as neutral as possible and not mention anyone specifically, and you dare to say my comments are "diatribe"? The way I see it, you're the one that "attack" me first. Your comments really show your insecurity towards your intellect and instead of arguing or debating properly, you take my comments out of context and create excuses to avoid debating because I assume you can't create reasonable arguments.
🤣
Of course, still can't create any meaningful argument. Let's not waste anymore of our time and end this conversation here.
😆🤣😂
I don't know what to say anymore except, very mature dude. I'll just say this, learn to control your ego and accept that there will always be a bigger fish.
🤣
To be honest, neither do I. Like I said, it's just my opinions. I don't have proof or facts that it will work as intended. Take it as you will. I don't mind getting sidetracked though, as long as the conversation is meaningful. There is always something to learn, and improve.
Except for those deformed by conditioning into abject servility, everyone values fairness at the moment of being unfairly deprived of the means of one's own survival.
Valuation of fairness is a rather robust human trait. In some individuals it may be less pronounced, but as a tendency it is robust, not only among humans, but also among various non-human species.
Members of societies with low levels of inequality generally have more favorable subjective experiences, even those within the cohorts with greater privilege.
Nurturing the vitality of society as a whole, and the health of relations in community, has been a facet of human behavior indispensable for our survival.