ABC article alleges caucus concern over Fatima Payma being "guided by god". Smells of a character assassination to me. (www.abc.net.au)

submitted 4 months ago by naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/australianpolitics@aussie.zone

20 comments fedilink hide all child comments

This is fucked reporting right? The quote they use as evidence is her saying something is "in God's hands". Elsewhere articles are run using quotes of her praying to god.

This is like, extremely normal lexicon for even casually religious people right? I'm an atheist with a pretty negative view of religion and to me this looks like pearl clutching.

Lots of extremely normal people say "I am praying for guidance" when they're reflecting on something. That in isolation doesn't mean they expect a hedge to catch fire and tell them what to do...

If our standard is pollies never mention religion then we might want to do some stuff about the Lord's prayer, the oaths, and the magical mace of the Royal cult.

top 20 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 11 points 4 months ago

I don't give a fuck what she says she's guided by. Whatever word she uses for it is really just a placeholder for "morals". And in this case she's the only Labor MP or Senator with any of those.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 months ago

Ain't that the truth.

[-] TinyBreak@aussie.zone 8 points 4 months ago

Alright, gonna take some heat for this but I want to say it: I don't want anyone at any level of government making decisions based around god. Dont care what god, dont care what decision. And yes, I ABSOLUTELY have this criticism of scomo!

I think she was morally right, I support her. But if she did it cause its what her god wants her to do I'd argue that's doing it for the wrong reasons.

Your morals and ethics can be inspired by your faith, but faith should not be the backbone of your morals and ethics.

[-] naught101@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

In a strikingly similar way, one should not have to toe the party line.

[-] skribe@aussie.zone 7 points 4 months ago

Just imagine if one of these 'guided by God' people ever managed to attain the Prime Ministership. Then we'd be in real trouble.

[-] Taleya@aussie.zone 7 points 4 months ago

last one we had held half the cabinet positions.

[-] Nath@aussie.zone 5 points 4 months ago

I have no issue with the ABC reporting. They've reported this fairly straight. I do have issues that we are spending a lot of time talking about a senator that none of us had heard of a week ago. I have issues that the author of this piece is on the other side of the country to the senator in question. I wouldn't be surprised to learn she hasn't even met the senator. That said, I respect that she gave the senator more airtime than she gave the supposed concerns of caucus:

Senator Payman said the suggestion she was "being guided by god" in her decision-making and would campaign on other "Islamic propositions" was an insult.

"I don't know how to respond to that question without feeling offended or insulted [at the suggestion] that just because I am a visibly Muslim woman I only care about Muslim issues," she said.

Fair enough. Both Senator Payman's response and the reporting of it. Sounds like the drama is coming from those 'faceless men' we all love so much.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

It's a higher standard than tabloid rags but I feel like they're doing this a massive disservice by repeating it at all, especially without adding context such as the number of times various senators have mentioned religion, the mandatory religion in Parliament, and consequently that this is obviously an islamophobic smear campaign.

Their own stats say that very few people read more than the first paragraph (I can't find them but they had this whole campaign on it using their metrics). It's obviously inflammatory and most readers won't remember the nuance, they'll remember vague concerns of scary Muslim god stuff and not supporting Israel.

[-] biscuitswalrus@aussie.zone 5 points 4 months ago

Look, I'd call it fair if the Christian side had the same level applied to it.

I want no religion in my politics thanks. Full stop. Even handed.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

Depending on what you mean that might be naïve. As it stands something like half of us are religious and many people who are religious would say it significantly shapes their views on things.

It's not even clear where the boundaries between religious and nonreligious views are sometimes.

I think it's reasonable to ask for a politics that's reasonable, earnest, compassionate, and understanding. I think it's also true that fundamentalism can be awful and used to make frothing bigotry seem more reasonable than it is.

But idk, if someone says "a fundamental creed of some system I believe in is non violence and helping the weak, and I meditated on that in my appropriate cultural building last night, so I will be voting against the 'kill the target minority' bill proposed" is that such a bad or unreasonable thing?

I think there's some nuance, and it doesn't seem that much more silly than standing before an ocean storm, feeling the sublime, and that moment triggering a reduction in ego or whatever.

[-] Taleya@aussie.zone 1 points 4 months ago

yeah nah. My grandmother was religious as fuck and she never said shit like "it's in gods hands" she just made a decision and if questioned said "Because it's the right thing to do you bloody drongo"

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

Really? I got kicked out of Christian Education in highschool for eating a bible and I've said "It's in God's hand's now". Admittedly as a humourous way to sum up "I've done what I can, now we see how it shaked out" but all the same.

It's just an idiom. No doubt sometimes people literally mean it as handing off responsibility to a supernatural, interventionist entity but I would not assume that without seeing evidence someone was a fundie.

[-] CTDummy@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

One MP told the ABC they were alarmed that the senator was distancing herself from the decision and assigning it to a higher order.

I get where this post is coming from and it’s a pretty average article out of ABC. That said, if you cross the floor for something, something that hasn’t been done in labour for a long time (apparently). I would hope you have a more well thought out and coherent answer than “it’s outta my hands”. It seems to me this is the issue the article is raising. Not the fact that she’s religious or cited it in her politics, though personally I think the latter should be avoided.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 months ago

That's not the context she appears to have said it in. The quote appears to be in the context of whether she would support a bill requiring a two state solution as conditional for recognition. That is relayed by a third party and a reasonable assumption is the context being "It's not up to me if this bill passes or not, I don't know if I'd support it at the moment. Let's see what happens".

Remember, you are hearing a fragment of something said by an unnamed source who has the incentive to portray her as bad, and is likely trying to cover for labor continuing to absolutely nothing for Palistine while tacitly supporting crackdowns on protest.

[-] CTDummy@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

I see how I misunderstood the context but it change the overall point slightly. It’s an odd response for a politician and evasive given she felt strongly enough to cross the floor. Given she’s a member of parliament and votes on issues raised in parliament, it’s not out of her hands, evidently. The article goes on to assert she had likely planned her vote and hadn’t raised the issue with the PM. Your last paragraph I largely agree with either way, ‘labour sources’ pffft. Other labour MPs will say whatever shit about her because she stepped out of line with the party.

I just read she quit the party which is unfortunate and even worse looking for labour.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah maybe, again though zero context and dubious evidence.

She might just not want a two state solution. That's a reasonable stance, whether or not you think it would shake out nicely I can understand feeling like Israel is an illegitimate nation. At this point regardless of how it was founded I feel enough reasonable people ended up there either through birth, feeling persecution, exile or sale (yep... countries sold Jewish people to Israel. Fucking horror show that is) that not allowing them to stay in at least some of the claimed area and self govern is naïve. Although I would probably feel differently if the state killed my parents, gaoled my spouse, and blew up my kid so my opinion is questionably neutral.

Would labour MPs support a 2 state solution of the second state was to be founded in Australia's sovereign territory? maybe made up of fragments of their houses?

Giant fucking mess of a sitch.

[-] CTDummy@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

zero context and dubious evidence.

That’s largely my problem with it too. Reads more like tabloid shit, I can’t get over citing politicians namelessly without invoking the word anonymous anywhere. How it isn’t required for them mention that the opinion was given under condition of anonymity is rubbish.

so my opinion is questionably neutral.

Yeah that’s why my opinion hasn’t ever been much braver than “it never should have gotten to this point” on the matter either. I don’t live there, haven’t been in the Palestinian or Israeli shoes and certainly am not informed enough on the matter. Definitely not enough to comfortably give it on record, in public and potentially off the cuff like that.