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submitted 1 month ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The use of the word "tankie" these days is so over-used it has become synonymous with "left of the DNC." I've even seen Anarchists described as "tankies," it's getting ridiculous. Still, the word "tankie" is most often used by liberals against Marxists, though they won't admit to having an anti-Marxist bias, mostly because they think they agree with Marx generally but are unfamiliar with Marxist analysis.

Really, more people need to read theory before having an opinion on it to avoid speaking past each other. I wrote an introductory reading list for Marxism-Leninism if anyone wants to get a better understanding of Marxism.

[-] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 month ago

It's both overused in the way you describe and yet obscure enough that only terminally-online political people have even heard of it.

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[-] FrostyTrichs@walledgarden.xyz 13 points 1 month ago

Back when I used reddit it seemed like everyone threw around Fascist in a similar way. Lemmy seems to prefer Tankie. For a lot of people the thinking doesn't go any farther than "I disagree with you, therefore you are ________ist" or whatever.

It is what it is.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 month ago

It varies from instance to instance. The main users of the word "tankie" are blahaj.zone, lemmy.world, and sh.itjust.works from what I've seen, most other instances generally aren't as bad about it IMO.

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[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 35 points 1 month ago

The biggest irony of our times is blood thirsty liberals who are cheering for as much war as possible running around calling people tankies.

[-] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 month ago

Iraq war supporters calling anyone a tankie, should be immediately flattenned by a tank

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 33 points 1 month ago

nowadays tankie just means someone who shills for china/russia with a communist background

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Communists support the PRC as a Socialist state run by Marxist-Leninists, yes. No Communist supports the Russian Federation outright, however, only reserved, temporary, and highly critical support for Russia's anti-US Hegemony stance, which it only adopts for its own survival and not out of any moral superiority. No Communist "shills" for the Russian Federation.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 1 month ago

If China is a socialist state worth supporting then I'm a donkey with a laser dick :P But I'm more anarchistically inclined so different perspective.

I see your point though. What I'm saying is not that communist = tankie, on the contrary. I'm saying that tankies claim to be communists but spend all day parroting their favorite Russian or Chinese state propaganda because they believe everything else is clearly controlled by Obamna™ himself. They rarely actually talk about communism, they just roam Lemmy all day calling everybody who disagrees with them a liberal :D

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 month ago

The conversation around China will take a minute, so I'll skip ahead to your second paragraph and circle back to do your statement justice.

The people you describe as "tankies" do not exist in any reasonable number. You are extending a belief in some aspects of anti-western sources as full blind dogmatism. Secondly, in order to even consider oneself a Communist in a western-dominated website means exposure to constant western-narrative, the idea that eastern propaganda is much more effective is more of a smokescreen to avoid discussing hard topics than anything else.

As for the PRC, they absolutely aren't Anarchist. They are, however, Marxist-Leninist, and Socialist. They have a Socialist Market Economy. Their Public Sector has supremacy over the direction of the Private Sector as key heavy industries the Private Sector relies on are entirely State Owned, and the Private Sector itself is trapped in a "birdcage model" whereby the CPC increases ownership and control as Markets naturally form monopolist syndicates.

This is entirely in line with Marxism. Marxists believe that markets naturally centralize and form monopolist syndicates ripe for central planning, and thus are more efficient vectors for growth at earlier stages in development, but that as they centralize this becomes less efficient and public ownership and central planning takes priority.

I recommend the article Socialism Developed China, Not Capitalism.

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[-] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 month ago

It means "anyone who does not immediately believe the most lurid rumors about the Bad Countries"

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago

Weird way to say has at least modicum of understanding of geopolitics and doesn't support the genocidal western empire.

[-] Crikeste@lemm.ee 13 points 1 month ago

It’s not shilling, it’s nuance. American main stream thinking is full of lies about both China and Russia. And both conservatives and liberals HATE when people don’t fall in line.

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[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's always funny to me how the go-to examples of like, "See, they just blindly support anything the regime does!" tend to be relatively minor events after the state in question has considerably chilled out. Like, Stalin and Mao did much worse things compared to Khrushchev/Hungary and Deng/Tienanmen. The problem being, communists are generally willing to criticize things like the Great Leap Forward, because, surprise surprise, we don't just blindly support anything they do. The reason for this is that the word tankie isn't meant to describe someone who blindly supports everything a communist country does, as it's claimed to, but rather, someone who supports anything any communist country does.

The fear Western leftists had that led to the term being coined was that people who had previously been critical of Stalin and Mao would respond positively to the countries moving away from their approach, and so they had to create a label to discredit such people and associate them with the previous leaders. It's one of the reasons Khrushchev's approach was questionable, because no matter how much you try to distance yourself from someone like Stalin and paint yourself as "one of the good ones," you're still never going to appease the Western left that demands absolute perfection, let alone the West in general.

[-] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 month ago

[removed by mod]

[-] Aria@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 1 month ago

Straight from the horses' mouth, a tankie is anyone left of Hitler. You're literally calling humans 'orks'. You are a Nazi.

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[-] Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Lol I get called a tanky for criticizing the Democratic party and Israel and that's literally the only time I've ever seen it used.

Conflating it with supporting a government that hasn't existed since I was 3 is downright hysterical.

I get called a tanky by people who literally support the group using tanks.

[-] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 month ago

incredible that people can see an actual genocide livestreamed for 13 months on every social media platform available, and STILL think anything comparable to that is happening in China. absolutely mindboggling.

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[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Do you deny the genocide happening in China or in Ukraine? Then you are a tankie.

Do you believe that claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence? Then you're a tankie.

Some people have this idea that if a claim involves genocide, then it gets to bypass the entire process of investigating a claim, because it's technically "genocide denial," so like if someone said "France is committing genocide against Belgians!" you'd just have to accept it without question. In fact, it's the opposite, more extreme claims require more solid evidence.

Since we're on .ml though, we don't have to deal with such absurd censorship standards, and I'm free to point out the fact that the whole "Uighur genocide" narrative is just unsubstantiated propaganda, coming almost entirely from one crackpot named Adrian Zenz. And at this point it's largely outdated propaganda, since the narrative has largely quietly disappeared from the news after the claims about it couldn't be verified.

You're welcome to prove me wrong though. You know, just show me the bodies. How long has it allegedly been going on at this point? We can see what an ongoing genocide looks like by what's happening in Gaza. Strange how there aren't any similar images coming out of Xinjiang, isn't it?

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[-] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago

And if someone supports the American government which is committing a genocide in Gaza right now?

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[-] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago

Summary of this comment: "Do you recognize reality and not believe the ocean of NATO propaganda we're all awash in? Then you're a tankie. Do you reject a bunch of bullshit I made up using fascist-invented terms like "red fash" and "totalitarian"? Then you're a tankie."

Ok, I'm a definitely tankie then. It must suck not to be one and be stuck in these pitiful, childish delusions, and labeling people "orks" and ascribing people who value truth with what you think is an epithet. Some grade A fuckin' cringe right here.