this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2025
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[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 83 points 2 days ago (31 children)

Economics Explained has an interesting video on the topic. After WWII, Japan became the first country in Asia to undergo an industrial revolution and soon became the second largest economy after the US and was by many accounts set to match or even overtake the US. They then suffered an economic collapse due to unchecked growth and speculative markets and decided to never again speculate on the future and just stick to tried and true methods.

Since the 1990s, Japan's economy has barely changed while other nations have seen huge growth. You'd assume that would mean Japan is now far behind, but they aren't. They seem to have mastered keeping everything the same for decades without the normal decline that comes with it.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 29 points 1 day ago

And that, actually, is a great thing. You don't want explosive growth, you want stability. This is a lesson the US is learning right now

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I spend at least a month in Japan every year and the tech there is great for the most part. All of the critical parts infrastructure tech is brilliant and incredibly stable.

The lack of risk taking is very noticeable though especially when it comes to contemporary software and UX. There just so much broken tech because everything moves so slowly - for example to pick up a reserved train tickets you need to bring the same physical card you made you payment with and thats the only way. So if you used a virtual card or forgot your card at home you're screwed.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

After WWII, Japan became the first country in Asia to undergo an industrial revolution

After WW2? Industrialization during the 20s/30s was the whole reason they attempted to conqueror the Oceanic island states and the Chinese/Korean/Indochinese mainland.

They then suffered an economic collapse due to unchecked growth and speculative markets and decided to never again speculate on the future and just stick to tried and true methods.

The Japanese Economy was undone by The Plaza Accord and The Louvre Accord, which western nations used to devalue their currency and undermine Japanese export prices. The downturn, followed by a financialized corporate consolidation and expropriation of revenues through foreign investment, permanently crippled the Japanese economy in the aftermath of the 90s Asian recession.

What sets countries like Japan, Korea, and the Philippines apart from China is the domestic control of their industries. Their markets are dominated by private equity and fixated on steady profit margins rather than long term public investments. Consequently, the capital cities are flooded with cash and industrial development while the rural areas are devoid of commerce. There's no shortage of speculation, but its rooted in the private equity markets and focused largely on fictitious capital - debt instruments and their derivatives - rather than real capital or technology.

Chinese investment in the periphery and its rising tide of middle class wage earners is what propels them into the 21st century. They're the ones building out new transit lines, new public housing projects, new universities, and blue sky research. The Xi Government is openly hostile to speculative investment, doesn't bother to bail out failing financial institutions, and focuses primarily on expansion of utilities, trade corridors, and mixed us developments.

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[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 143 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

The US isn't innovating jack shit.

The US just created a massively polarized and unequal society so that when a country creates a new brilliant researcher or innovation, an American company can buy them out.

Basically, the insane poverty and lack of government services that the average American experiences gives them enough cash to buy up innovative people, companies, and competitors.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 2 days ago

Also the post-WW2 world order heavily favours their economy.

Their allies buy their debt, and their weapons. They give access to theiir markets to US companies, and support US wars around the world. They invest in the US economy in an unbalanced way that favours the US economy.

And all of this was in exchange for US security.

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 55 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Same thing that happens everywhere. Low cost innovation gets expensive as companies grow and salaries rise, profit seekers move to exploit cheaper labor elsewhere.

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[–] brejela@lemm.ee 1 points 23 hours ago

I genuinely think using generative AIs to do your job for you should be grounds for immediate termination under just cause.

Machines have no agency and can never be held responsible for anything, thus should never be put under professional responsibility.

I can't wait for these models to colapse onto themselves.

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 94 points 2 days ago (5 children)

If AI is the chief innovation in the US, then the US is massively fucked.

I'd much rather have a fancy shinkansen.

[–] Waffle@infosec.pub 41 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That's a high speed train for the non-weebs

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] amorpheus@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago
[–] weker01@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You seem to be implying an argument based on Modus tollens:

  1. If AI is the chief US innovation, then the US is massively fucked.
  2. The US is not massively fucked.
  3. Ergo, AI is not the chief US innovation.

Well I disagree with the premise 2:

The US is massively fucked.

With that, no conclusion can be gained from premise 1.

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago

I'm implying nothing. Some things are meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

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[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 1 points 23 hours ago

The Plaza Accord happened. Japan was also demonized in media and politics like China is now.

[–] WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 5 points 1 day ago

I guess Japan caught depression.

[–] DesolateMood@lemm.ee 56 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They have no groundbreaking AI software

Neither does the US

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[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 48 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Sadly Japan may be a culture in decline.
Their culture is basically work yourself to the bone even more than the US. Young people study their ass off and get a job working long hours while still living at home because they still can't afford their own place. And you have stuff like if the subway is a minute late they hand out apology slips to workers so they don't get in trouble with their bosses for being 30 seconds late. Meanwhile there is a very strong 'defer to elder authority' note in their culture. And in many industries people are expected to work a 10-hour day and then go drinking with the bus until 2:00 a.m. only to be back at work the next day at 8:00 a.m.
The end result is young people have neither the time nor the money to have kids. So they don't.

Their population is literally aging and shrinking. They are facing a very serious problem in wondering who is going to take care of their elderly. Their birth to death ratio is 0.44, meaning that for every baby born in a year more than two people die. In a nation of about 125 million, the population is shrinking by just under a million every year. That's not good.

And while the Japanese people are highly educated and very capable, the 'defer to authority' culture prevents the sort of entrepreneurship you see in the US. An example of this, Japanese companies have a stamp called the hanko, when a paper memo is circulated around the office each employee stamps it with their personal hanko stamp to signify that they have read it. Many Japanese companies stayed in person during COVID simply because there was no digital equivalent to the hanko and managers refused to give it up.

If you wants an example, look at Toyota Motors. It's been obvious to everyone with eyes that electric vehicles are the future, and it has been obvious for probably 8 or 10 years. Every major automaker is investing in EV technology. Except Toyota, which up until recently was still betting the farm on hybrids and hydrogen. But that's because the good Mr Toyoda didn't like EVs, and unlike in an American company no one would dare challenge him on that.

It is really too bad. Japan is a wonderful place with an amazing culture and rich history. But if they are going to survive they need to make very serious changes to their society and they need to do it soon. That is going to involve dumping most of what currently qualifies as Japanese business culture, an instituting some real work-life balance laws with teeth. I don't know if they're going to do it.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The most fascinating thing about their extreme "defer to authority" attitute, is the appearance of the "angry american" phenomenon, which is just a japanese-speaking white dude employee, which is literally there to voice the staff grievances and suggestions to the boss, without anyone japanese having to lose face. Literally the reinvention of the court jester in modern times!

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 23 hours ago

Wait, they got a job where you're supposed to be professionally angry?

I gotta go to Japan asap.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is a good summary, but I think it misses another big point. The country is super racist. They don't allow enough immigration to offset demographic issues. They also don't get any other benefits of immigration like cultural changes that could actually help companies be more adaptable, or maybe trying something different than the exact same thing for 100 years is a good idea.

[–] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I had sex with a Japanese girl once. Not relevant, I just like telling people.

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[–] jqubed@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago

Maybe Japan is so advanced it already moved past the overhyped generative “AI” and that’s why we haven’t heard anything about it

[–] gabelstapler@feddit.org 22 points 2 days ago (13 children)

Japan is living in the year 2000, since 50 years.

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[–] hayali99@lemmy.world 0 points 22 hours ago

japan and germans selling goods to america with no tax etc, they had no serious miltary concerns, invesment, america protects them, there is a invest sell cycle to them so they can produce more tech and goods until 80s and 90s america stops buying because it hurts their economy and japan and german passed them now they both in crisis. no major market to sell no spare money to inovation no more protection.

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