this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2025
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[–] nylo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

“But they starts with thinking about people as things . . . ”

-terry pratchett

eta the whole quote for anyone unfamiliar

There is a very interesting debate raging at the moment about the nature of sin, for example,” said Oats. 
“And what do they think? Against it, are they?” said Granny Weatherwax. 
“It’s not as simple as that. It’s not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray.” 
“Nope.” 
“Pardon?” 
“There’s no grays, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is. 
“It’s a lot more complicated than that . . .” 
“No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.” 
“Oh, I’m sure there are worse crimes . . .” 
“But they starts with thinking about people as things . . . ” 

[–] drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Fascists might be human people, but I've lost faith in human people. I kinda don't even want to keep being one myself.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Check out post-humanism. There's no need to self-identify as "human". Just detach from the whole mess and identify as animal.

[–] WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 1 points 2 days ago

I identify as whatever the hell the SCP Foundation turned into in the SCP-5000 scenario

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[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

What does it mean to you, to dehumanize someone? What is materially different about feeding an evil human who has done incalculable damage to the world into a meat grinder, vs doing so with the same person but this time, you feel bad about it because they were a human too?

I agree, we shouldn't label groups of people as good or bad if they have no mechanism to move between groups. But if you think for a second that I will regard fascists as anything more than the ravenous, hate filled maggots they are, you are mistaken. They chose to give up their humanity and they could just as easily choose to regain it. Until then, they are not human to mem

[–] bss03@infosec.pub 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Dehumanization is denying someone human rights.

Fascists can and should be denied political power, not human rights.

You and I might disagree about the specifics of human rights, but I doubt we disagree that they exist.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Dehumanization ~~is~~ can include denying someone human rights.

Good point apart from this nitpick.

[–] Xanthrax@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

Nazis. I don't think there's a way around that one. The only human nazi is a dead nazi.

Edit: I think it's fair to dehumanize someone who killed a bunch of people before they die, as long as it's confirmed. The Nazis enjoyed their paperwork.

[–] Djehngo@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (3 children)

This was the horrifying thing about the nerenberg trials, not that the Nazis were somehow inhuman shape changers who condemned millions to slavery, torture and death, but the fact that they were regular hamuman beings with regular families, thoughts and desires who condemned millions to slavery torture and death.

It is known as "the banality of evil", the point of the concept isn't to excuse the Nazis but to make people aware that ordinary people in the "right" environment can absolutely become evil.

If you believe Nazis aren't people you are avoiding the work of ensuring you don't act like them, more critically you are avoiding the work of ensuring your friends and family and other "people" you know aren't acting like them. I don't mean hats with skulls on them and building has chambers, but I mean the intentional "othering" of people, in the Nazis time Jews, homosexuals, gypsies etc. today probably some other groups. The root of the Nazis evil is that they considered these people sub human and therefore any actions taken against them, no matter how vicious were morally correct so long as they benefitted "real people".

A similar root exists behind many of the worst institutional evils in the world today, e.g. the active genocides in Sudan and Palestine.

This is why the nerenberg trials were and are important.

[–] nylo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

"It was because he wanted there to be conspirators. It was much better to imagine men in some smoky room somewhere, made mad and cynical by privilege and power, plotting over the brandy. You had to cling to this sort of image, because if you didn't then you might have to face the fact that bad things happened because ordinary people, the kind who brushed the dog and told their children bedtime stories, were capable of then going out and doing horrible things to other ordinary people. It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was Us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things."

-pratchett, once again

[–] Djehngo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Speaking of Pratchett; I recently re-read the last continent and I was amazed at how there was a mention of drag queens (probably alluding to Priscilla; Queen of the Desert?) but it was handled very tastefully, no obvious/lazy jokes.

This struck me since most media from 20 years back hasn't aged nearly so gracefully.

Between that and your comment I'm starting to realise that Terry Pratchett was probably a very wise very kind man who happened to write funny books. Which makes me so happy because the bromeliad trilogy were the first books that really got me into reading as a child.

I should re-read the discord series 🙂

[–] nylo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago

yeah he really is incredible, you would think across forty one books (and that's just the ones from discworld) in the time that he came from there would be at least a couple bad takes but he never misses.

i started mort as my first from him and got halfway through it but misplaced it :(

think I'm gonna get it on my kindle i really love his personification of death as a kind being who loves cats and desperately wants to understand humans haha

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