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How should a Buddhist react to/think about the death of a "bad" person? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml to c/buddhism@lemmy.ml

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Bad here is obviously loaded and murky, but I mean someone who habitually caused suffering to others either intentionally or with wanton disregard for their well-being. Someone who profited off of inciting violence against others. Someone who was unrepentant and unlikely to have changed their ways.

That happened today. My reaction was... not compassionate and equanimous, but I am unsure how one should view events like these.

On the one hand this was a person theoretically capable of goodness and compassion even if they did not typically manifest those traits. They had a family who loved them. They were a person deserving of compassion as are their family members.

On the other hand, this person will not continue to cause suffering to others. Their death might be used as a pretext to cause greater suffering, but they themselves will not cause further harm. The way by which their capacity for harm was diminished was not good, but the fact that they will not continue to cause harm is good.

Are there suttas or any other works that touch on these topics? Or on right view/right thought about people who have caused a great deal of harm dying/being killed?

Edit:

I found 2 suttas that clarify the Buddhist view:

The question I am still struggling with is how Buddhism would address the paradox of tolerance - that toleration of the intolerant will lead to a destruction of tolerance.

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[–] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There are no 'bad people', only people with stronger delusions.

Everyone has Buddha-nature, and additionally everyone (except the awakened) has ignorance.

What you are calling 'bad people' are people who you've seen habitually act under the influence of delusions like anger, grasping, jealousy, wrath, etc.

If you believe in beginningless time, those same people have acted benevolently countless times in the past, as well as harmfully countless times.

So much for 'bad people', now how should Buddhists react to death? Death comes to us all and the only thing that persists after death is the karma. If someone has acted under strong delusions in this life, then they have karma that will carry them into an unpleasant rebirth. For a Buddhist, it's always bad when beings suffer; there's no such thing as "good! they deserved it!". So it's regrettable for someone to die with a lifetime of bad karma to carry them into a hellish rebirth.

If you think "they deserved it!" just think about how suffering feels bad. Like when you have a toothache, that feels bad. Why do you want inherently bad mental states to exist anywhere? An ignorant person will say, "Because this person is 'bad' and bad people should get suffering!" but that shows that you are reasoning from the (deluded) view of separate individual existences. Ideally nobody should get suffering. The delight in the suffering of others is itself a nasty delusion that will create bad karma for you.

[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Thank you for your reply, understanding, and willingness to share your knowledge. I agree about the value judgment "bad" is unhelpful, but I had clarified my meaning in my post - specifically I meant those causing harm through delusion, believing they are right to cause harm and so continuing to do so unrepentantly - and so I am hung up on this idea of "bad" and how it affects us in the present and future.

I found 2 suttas that clarify the Buddhist view:

Clearly, the possibility of redemption and our inherent humanity/'buddha-nature' have to be considered and honored, as does the harm done to those committing the violence or wrong speech/action (augmenting our own propensity toward creating suffering).

Regarding birth and rebirth. My views on rebirth are not very literal - I am more in line with the Zen tradition, master Thich Nhat Hanh (represented in his "cloud becomes tea" metaphor), or secular Buddhism in thinking that our rebirth is significantly less preserving of any true self since the self arises from material conditions that cease to be upon death but that our actions and kamma do live on long past our physical bodies. This may not be a majority view, but I believe it has support, is consistent with no-self (annatta) and is the one that makes most sense to me.

That said, I am very concerned with suffering in the present, observable world. Because of this, it is less meaningful to me that this person may have committed many good deeds in any past - additionally, I do not think that good deeds can cancel out bad ones and so I am concerned with eliminating and preventing those deeds which cause suffering.

One thing that I am struggling with, though, is that I do not see a good response to the tolerance paradox. If people are allowed to harm others and propagate harm toward others, and no one stops them, and they have no internal motivation to stop committing harmful actions, then the harm they do will continue to grow.

Is there a Buddhist work that addresses this well?

[–] Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 days ago

Saw this on all so take it for a grain of salt but this is just one of those things, to me, that’s beyond good or bad. It’s just a consequence that occurred because the individual kept causing harm to others. And a reaction can only be that, just a reaction and then you can either let it die or feed it. I have read some Buddhism stuff before and recall something about thinking in terms beyond good or bad because good/bad and right/wrong can be subjective to how the individual grew up. But I feel stuff on that applies here because yes it’s weird to feel maybe apathy at best for sure but he really did a lot of damage and angered a lot of people. Doing that just ends up causing consequences sometimes

[–] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

Don't overthink it.