What about those Epstein files?
this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2025
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Charlie Kirk Memorial
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Let's remember Charlie Kirk for who he was.
"I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that does a lot of damage." -Charlie Kirk
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You can disagree with Kirk on just about everything but he was a big supporter of debating ideas & free speech. The more you celebrate murdering people for their speech, the more damage I feel you're doing to hurt the causes you otherwise support.
So you're saying I should limit my speech whilst discussing the death of Kirk?
I never said that. I said I think people are doing damage by celebrating him getting murdered for speech you'd otherwise care about. Not that I think that is right, that you shouldn't have free speech, even ugly speech, but that I believe they'll use things like this to promote their fascism. I think it is dumb for that reason. I also think if you're celebrating people getting murdered for their ideas, especially those that actually did value free speech, that it appears you don't really care about free speech at all & that you support your own form of fascism.
They support the idea of comeuppance. It's so rare to see, when it's always us losing something. To see someone else pay a terrible price for their own words, rather than is pay for their words.
Rush Limbaugh died an old, wealthy man. And he didn't care that his words lead to abortion clinic bombings, rotations of rights, erosion of critical thinking, and less civility. He "got away with it".
Alex Jones looked to be getting his, but it seems now he can make money off of dead kids, harass the parents, and get off Scott free. That leaves a bad taste in many people's mouths.
Tucker Carlson got out-argued and lost his job on crossfire - that was a comeuppance that I still celebrate.
Is it ghoulish to celebrate that Tucker had to eat his own medicine? I think not.
Timewarp, why do you hate freedom? Why would you push us to self-censor and just let fascists do what they want? They're going to try to do it anyway, regardless of what anyone does. I bet you'd give Austria and Poland to Germany in the name of civility and appeasement, too.
They support the idea of comeuppance.
Is it ghoulish to celebrate
Thank you for finally being honest that you are celebrating—it makes it much easier to have a real conversation—but who is they?
I'd suggest to go outside & stop basing your world view around bubbles on social media. Most of us live in areas that have people that support both right-wing & left-wing politicians. Do I disagree with a lot of ideas of people on the right? Absolutely! So I go talk to them, maybe try to understand them better first.. and then have a dialogue, based around empathy & patience. If I believe their ideas or wrong, then I show them based on how I act that they too can change their beliefs, be happy, honest with others & myself, & loving. That is the anti-fascist way.
We also have a legal system in the US, that despite its flaws, has had quite a few good moments. If people are legitimately making threats against your or others, slandering you or harassing you, then you use that system. Again, that is what anti-fascist do. They support & uphold systems like this, while working to ensure they are accountable. That doesn't mean they are perfect, and that injustice doesn't incur, but it is what we have & it has done what it was designed to do for the most part.
Tucker Carlson got out-argued and lost his job on crossfire - that was a comeuppance that I still celebrate.
Yes, and Tucker is now using his platform to oppose the genocide in Palestine... something many on the left turned a blind eye to their own politicians supporting & funding it, and that continue to do so. There is a big difference between a company firing someone vs. killing someone for their talking points.
Timewarp, why do you hate freedom?
I clearly don't hate freedom. I respect freedom, which includes disagreement, even when it is in strong opposition to my own beliefs. I have faith & confidence in my own beliefs that they are what is right, moral & pure, so I feel confident in my message & its ability to live on.
They’re going to try to do it anyway, regardless of what anyone does
Then I say good luck. I don't think getting rid of the first amendment is that easy.
I certainly hope that isn't what happens, but if it does.. I know that I can find plenty of people claiming to be Democrats that were opposed to free speech. So maybe that is what people on the left really wanted, and they are getting.. just not when they were in power.
I think people are doing damage by celebrating him getting murdered for speech you’d otherwise care about.
He promoted hate to MAGA. MAGA shot him in the neck.
There is a sort of beauty in that.
This sort of meme (the ones about making his face smaller) has been made for a long while before he was murdered, and this one doesnt reference his murder or any of the details or even mention that he is dead, let alone express celebration of it. If someone who did not know about his assassination were to see it, they would not even be clued in that he was dead. How then does it celebrate murdering him? And if even this doesnt pass muster for you on that, how would you go about making fun of him without celebrating his killing? Being murdered doesnt make one immune from criticism after all, and mockery is a form of personal criticism.
He was shot in the neck. The meme says.. "Honey I shrunk my face," with a gun pointing at his head, and your argument is that it isn't making fun of or celebrating? At least be honest about it... Have you seen the other memes here? You're celebrating, like why even try to pretend?
That thing pointed at his head doesn't even resemble a gun. I'm not entirely sure what it is, from the context I'm assuming its something from the movie "honey I shrunk the kids", presumably a shrinking device, but I've not seen that film. It's also not pointed at his neck. Further, as I mentioned already, the face shrinking thing is a meme that predates his killing by years. I would not even be surprised if it wasn't an old meme that has been reposted, though I don't know either way as I've not seen this one previously. And again, if you think this particular meme celebrates his murder, I ask you, what in your mind should a meme making fun of him that does not celebrate it look like?
The thing pointed at him is the shrink ray from the movie they are parodying with the meme.
Okay.. so it has been less than 2 weeks, there is a meme in a Lemmy community dedicated to his death called Charlie Kirk Memorial, along with plenty of other content mocking & celebrating his death... and here is a meme, with an object (a shrink gun) used to fire things pointed at his head, saying "Honey I shrunk my face," where the assassin was trying to hit him, but instead hit his neck causing blood to pour out, and you're going to try to legitimately argue that it is an innocent meme merely meant to make fun of him? If you want to have an honest conversation, let's do it, but you're not being honest.
I am being honest, and I have explained my thinking on that manner. To be frank, I do not see what more you would want me to say to convince you of that, it isn't like I can just telepathically show you what my feelings on it are or something. Mind you, I'm not arguing that every meme is "innocent" in that regard, that most are, or even that the other memes in this community are. I'm arguing that this specific one is, because it doesn't resemble the memes I've seen about the shooting, it resembles the ones I've seen made for a long time before it.
Neither are you. A shrink ray is NOT a gun, it's NOT pointed at his neck and to argue as such is a bad faith argument and you're just here to stir up trouble. Why do you hate freedom so much, Timewarp?
Wikipedia, Gemini & other sources disagree with you. Why be disingenuous about it? And to claim I hate freedom... why? What would make you think that? I am here defending freedom saying celebrating killing people for their speech, because you disagree with it, is anti-freedom & a fascist ideology.
Have you seen Honey I Shrunk the Kids? What this is based on? It's a shrink ray mounted on a table with microchips and a baseball. That's not any gun shape that has ever existed in the history of ever. Show me a screenshot of the movie where the shrink ray is a hand held weapon with a trigger. I don't care what your hallucinating AI BS says. It's wrong.
And it's a simple question. You want us to curb our free speech. My freedom. Because you hate it. So really the only discussion with having is WHY you hate it freedom. Why do we need to give it up?
A gun can be mounted & remotely activated. It is on Wikipedia as well referring to a shrink ray as a gun. Anyway my point wasn't that I don't think you have a right to say what you want, because I do & tried to make that clear as well. If you want to celebrate the murder of people for their ideas, those who even advocated for free speech, then you do you. I just think you're increasing the divide & playing with fire.
Watch the movie. It's not a gun. I can't believe you haven't seen the movie. That's sad.
I notice you dropped the point of it being pointed at the neck. Good call.
I never, NEVER, said I celebrate the death of people for their ideals. Do not put words into my mouth. You keep trying to stifle people's views and call us celebrating, and keep us from expressing our views. So that's why I ask why you're trying to limit our freedom. Why do you hate freedom? It's a simple question that you should be able to answer.
You keep trying to stifle people’s views and call us celebrating, and keep us from expressing our views. So that’s why I ask why you’re trying to limit our freedom.
I've been consistently clear that I support your right to have those views. No where have I said that you should be banned. In fact, if someone were to try to ban you I'd be opposed to that. So to act like I hate freedom is disingenuous, which I believe you're ultimately being.
I've stated that I think what you're doing is what does damage, not that I don't support your right to do it. But I feel like if you actually care about humane causes you should put more thought into your actions.
If next election you get even less voters because voters see things like this & say to themselves, "those people acted gross & dehumanizing," then how does it help you?
If someone like Trump does end up trying to go after people for speech, then how do you think you can argue non-hypocritically that it's okay for you to be happy when someone silences free speech, but act appalled when Trump does it?
Watch the movie. It’s not a gun. I can’t believe you haven’t seen the movie. That’s sad.
I notice you dropped the point of it being pointed at the neck. Good call.
It is up to others to judge. You can certainly see historically the word gun has been a broad enough term to include a shrink ray gun. And to say, "it's aimed at the head & not the neck" is rather weak from my perspective.