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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Russia’s science and higher education ministry has dismissed the head of a prestigious genetics institute who sparked controversy by contending that humans once lived for centuries and that the shorter lives of modern humans are due to their ancestors’ sins, state news agency RIA-Novosti said Thursday.

Although the report did not give a reason for the firing of Alexander Kudryavtsev, the influential Russian Orthodox Church called it religious discrimination.

Kudryavtsev, who headed the Russian Academy of Science’s Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, made a presentation at a conference in 2023 in which he said people had lived for some 900 years prior to the era of the Biblical Flood and that “original, ancestral and personal sins” caused genetic diseases that shortened lifespans.

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[-] JCreazy@midwest.social 77 points 11 months ago

It's always confused me how someone that believes in a religion can be a scientist. They directly contradict each other. It just makes it sound like people are in denial.

[-] Haagel 65 points 11 months ago

With all due respect, my friend, you're assuming a false dillema. The majority of academic scientists are religious, reflective of the general population's religious affiliation.

Of course there are a minority of highly vocal outliers on both sides of the spectrum who profit from the discord, real or imagined.

https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-do-scientists-believe-religion-among-scientists-and-implications-for-public-perceptions/

[-] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago

There's a few Neil DeGrasse Tyson clips I remember seeing around about various scientific and religious interactions.

Like he calls nonsense on the BCE/CE vs BC/AD change because scientists, and really most of scociety, operates on the Gregorian Calendar which was created by the Catholic Church under Pope Gregory XIII and is the most accurate calendar we've ever made to account for leap years. Why deny the creators of a fantastic calendar their due respect just because they were religious in a time when everyone was religious?

And in a different he also talked about the Baghdad House of Wisdom and how throughout the Middle Ages of Europe, Baghdad was a center of intellectual thought and culture, until the Fundamentalists got into power and declared manipulating numbers was witchcraft, and ended up being a huge brain drain in Baghdad for centuries.

[-] Moghul@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago

NDT is a massive blowhard. I'm not religious but I got turned off by his weird interview with God thing.

[-] Haagel 11 points 11 months ago

He's one of the profiteers, in my opinion.

[-] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

His point about the change to BCE/CE is the actual nonsense. His point is that we should keep religious terminology being used in science? Out of respect for the creators? When have we ever done that? Science is secular and should be a secular pursuit. Every biologist and anthropologist shouldn’t have to reference Christ just to date their samples even if the calendar is the same. I respect NDT for his work but his awful takes like this hurt what he says often.

[-] danl@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Planet names, days of the week, months, which year is zero - even that we have 7 days in the week - All of these are direct religious references that we’re fine with.

[-] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Months are actually numbers and politics. For instance, August is named for Augustus Caesar and December basically means 'tenth month.'

[-] danl@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

January is named for Janus, February for a religious feast, March for Mars and June for Juno (Jupiter’s wife). April may also be a goddess Apru but the connection is still not agreed upon.

[-] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I think the BCE/CE thing is dumb because it's just a religious calendar under a different name. It doesn't change what Year 1 represents anymore than changing the spelling of a word changes its etymology. If we want a secular calendar we should do something like add a few thousand years to count from the founding of the first cities, or have it start in 1945 with the founding of the UN, or even 1970 when Unix time begins. As I see it, calling it the 'common era' does absolutely nothing to divorce the calendar from the birth of Jesus.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Make it 1969 for the moon landing. It would just be slightly off unix time which will annoy low level programmers forever.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago

Humans are fantastic at compartmentalization

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[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 21 points 11 months ago

You can be all sorts of religious and be a scientist.

But the moment you start to claim anything from one of the popular holy books is literally true, you become a massive hypocrite.

But there is no disconnect between deism and science.

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[-] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

To an extent it depends how that religion interacts with science. There's quite a few major foundational discoveries that came from priests and ordained clergy from the Catholic Church: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists

Within the Catholic Church there are a few orders of clergy dedicated to scientific discovery, especially the Jesuits.

Granted a lot of them conducted science under the broad philosophy of better understanding the universe God created, but if the end result eventually improves the lives of people, I don't see how that's an inherently bad thing.

If we wanted to be a bit more accurate to the hustoru of the real world, religious fundamentalism is opposed to science.

[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago
[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

The problem is that some people like this guy are clearly not compartimentalizing at all.

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[-] FrostKing@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

Its definitely not true that science and religion have to contradict each other. Take Christianity—you can easily believe in scientific methods to discover the way the world works, while believing that 'God' is the Creator of those things.

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Cognitive Dissonance. I was raised very devout and I did it for years. It doesn't confuse me, it evokes pity. I get to see people making the same fucking mistake I made and it hurts.

I made that mistake, no one else has to. Rip the band-aid off!

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[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago

It's embarrassing that he even got that far.

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[-] doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 36 points 11 months ago

Mixed feelings, on one hand it's good he is out, on the other hand it is shameful they let him get to such an incredibly high level of authority and left him there for so long.

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 22 points 11 months ago

Some people go bonkers later in life

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 33 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

How did that numpty ever end up in the Academy of Science in the first place?

[-] rustyfish@lemmy.world 42 points 11 months ago

Well it’s Russia so I’m gonna guess it was nepotism.

[-] Ugurcan@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Nepotism also comes with future immunity in oligarchies though.

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[-] braxy29@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago

wow, that headline is a whole journey

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 11 months ago

Christians will cite this as an example of them being persecuted. Guaranteed.

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 33 points 11 months ago

It's already there in the summary of the article. They're calling it religious discrimination.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 11 months ago

I guess I should have added "around the world." I was going to say "in the US," but then I remembered some of my religious family in other countries who would definitely say this, too.

[-] rustyfish@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

It’s the church. They call it religious discrimination when they aren’t allowed to discriminate others. Or murder. Point is they cry and get super hard when they can play the victim.

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[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago

Am I on Lemmy, or the SCP wiki?

[-] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 11 months ago
[-] APassenger@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

That's quite literally in the Bible. People are stated as having extraordinary lifespans (e. g., Methuselah).

Then there was a flood after which people saw a rainbow for the first time ever. Gods promise not to flood us again.

The implication seems to be that the earth was in a firmament bubble and the bubble burst, sending down water. Then we had direct sun and not the filtered kind that He* created us for.

No longer in our best element, we die earlier.

I'm not saying the above is true, I'm saying I've heard this for decades now and it checks out against biblical description.

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

And this is why, while you can have smart Christians, you really can't have smart biblical literalist.

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[-] Psythik@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

So you mean to tell me that you're weren't raised by hardcore Christians who drilled this "fact" down your throat well into adulthood? And that it's our fault for being sinners so we can't live 969 years anymore?

You're lucky son of a bitch, you know that, right?

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[-] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago

Listen. It's not that hard. A flood happens and now we have nearly 1/10th the lifespan.

DONT YOU GET IT?!

/s

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[-] shadmere@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

Phantom time conspiracies are my favorite kind of dumbass conspiracies.

[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

In the 80s and 90s people were so confused they believed in all kinds of scams. Charged water before the TV, gave money to financial pyramids, believed their kids dead in Afgan and Chechnya could be brought to life for a little donation, even japanese death cult Ayum Sinrikyo was filmed staying with Brejhnev and USSR got more of his followers than Japan itself. Some of these ceased to exist but some are still there, including that idiot, Dugin and others. One of the top programs on the TV in the 10s was an initially sceptical challenge show of self-named witches, mages, extrasensorically gifted people, that run for many seasons, and with time charlatans themselves started to use it as a kind of promotion to their services kek.

From all of them, at least Fomenko is too absurd to most and genuinely funny in how he intertwines random historical events and his own marasm. But all of them should go to court to be honest. Their success is just a symptom of bigger problems, but they further enable people's idiotism and live in luxury extorting them.

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[-] xc2215x@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

A rare time I agree with Russia.

[-] badbytes@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Saw recent Russian plan to solve road accidents, by having Russian Orthodox priest spread holy water on roads to bless them. This story seems inline.

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[-] prowess2956@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

How long until this guy finds his way to Florida?

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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
413 points (96.4% liked)

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