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this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2024
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The far right is still the biggest problem we have. Needless to say this was a horrible incident and no one wants fucking Isis around, but far right terrorism is still a much bigger threat to our society.
Fair enough as opinions go. More interesting would be facts and figures. A good place to begin: annual number of fatalities caused by terrorism of each of those two variants.
The German internal secret service (BfV) counted 1148 violent right-wing offenses in 2023. There were 329 violent offenses with "foreign" ideological background (this includes islamism among many other things) in 2023. Source PDF
I should probably note that BfV is known for being a little blind to right-wing extremism too.
Previous BfV president Maaßen has in the meantime become the leader of his very own right-wing party. I do trust current BfV president Haldenwang a bit more than him but I don't think he's been able to unfuck the organization as a whole.
Thank you. And fatalities? We can all surely agree that this is an important metric.
It's not listed. But I am almost certain there's some proportionality here.
OK. I will stay humble in my assertions since I'm too lazy to research the matter myself. But I am almost certain that there is not proportionality. That the far-right terrorist acts tend to be much smaller in scale and creating few victims and far fewer fatalities. Arson, that sort of thing. And that this qualitative difference in the terrorism is therefore the cause of much misunderstanding and indeed bad feeling in this debate, as some feel that they see an obvious false equivalence. But I'm straying from confirmed facts and liable to get accused of terrible things so I will stop there.
This whole line of argumentation is lazy. Claiming that arson doesn't create victims and doesn't potentially kill people. wtf?
The whole "difference in quality" comes down to reporting. Burning refugee homes is so normal that it often only makes local news here.
Yeah here you go: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/06/terrorism-far-right-white-supremacists-911-us
The guy from Norway, the guy in New Zealand, the guys in Germany were all nazi shooters mowing down immigrants. But politics and media call them lone wolfs or disoriented kids and it has nothing to do with their nazi manifestos vs if they’re Muslim it’s a problem of Islam as a whole.
I don’t blame anyone for actually believing that Islamism is real our biggest threat because media and politics make it seem that way.
But in fairness I believe those numbers vary year on year, and some years the figures are wildly different. After the Syrian influx for example.
Cards on the table. I believe, like most people do according to opinion polls, that it is a bigger threat. And obviously I can't prove this but I am also more or less certain that I am at least as informed as you, from at least as many sources. For what it's worth - and this is purely for context - I work in a media-adjacent field and have humanities degrees in different European languages.
So perhaps this is not a case of mass indoctrination, but rather simply of individuals having different values.
Did you read the article? It doesn’t talk about one specific year and covers also the period after “the Syrian influx”. Far right terrorism consistently beats Islamist terrorism both in terms of frequency and lethality.
Regarding your second point it would just help reading the article that I linked. You may believe that you’re informed but still your feeling goes against hard facts. You asked for statistics, we gave you statistics, you still refuse to change your mind so I don’t see any point continuing this conversation.
Can you support this claim with a reliable source? Because that is a huge hyperbole to my knowledge, with most of the rare Islamist attacks having a low single digit number of casualties and not that many more injured. The list on Wikipedia seems to support my knowledge on that point.
Yeah I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but you’re apparently just another right wing troll and I’m tired of that, one of the reasons I left Reddit and it’s always a pain in the ass when people like you arrive. I was only waiting for the part you’re treating 1.5bn Muslims as a monolith and here we are. You’re full of shit.
And water makes you wet. Doesn’t change that the far right is our biggest threat, which is something you deny.
Hard agree but that’s completely irrelevant in this context.
The problem is fascism in any way. Islamist extremists are just as fascistic as right wing extremists.