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My concern with this line of argument is that it bundles consequences from a system of government up with the consequences of trade embargoes and other hostile actions from capitalist economies. That doesn't make the actions of the dictators in those countries justifiable in any way, but might have precipitated conditions that made them more likely.
How would communist nations have fared if the US had taken a 'live and let live' approach to them? The approach during the cold war was that they couldn't be allowed to succeed. That led to the sort of standards of living where dictatorship tends to thrive. Note this isn't unique to communist countries. Look at the Republican party in the US, now that Neoliberalism is failing.
It also ignores that Socialism in AES states has generally resulted in mass reductions in poverty, increases in literacy, education, home ownership, and life expectancy.
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You're a fucking idiot if you think the problem with those countries is communism and not unceasing imperial violence targeted at them from the global core of wealth and fascism.
But even living under conditions of siege warfare they still manage to provide housing and healthcare to their people which make them objectively better places to live than the US, which deliberately keeps a large population homeless because of the coercion it creates for the working class.
Do you think changing Mode of Production magically transforms levels of development? Typical liberal.
Perfect, no response except to throw a question and “insult”
This is why you won’t be taken seriously ever.
I already answered you, living in the US is currently better than some AES states, because development isn't something magical. However, I would absolutely pick an AES state over the US in the comimg years. Hell, the PRC is in many ways ahead of the US for the average worker already.
Serious question because it is relevant to the discussion, do you currently have a job?
Do you live in one of these western countries?
What is your personal frame of reference that tells you you’d have a better life than where you are in Cuba or Laos or North Korea?
What would china give you right now that you would move there for?
Please, be specific so I can understand.
Pretend you had a chance to convince me instead of angrily and frustratedly arguing your point in a defensive manner.
I believe in socialism, it’s been incorporated into democracy quite well actually and provided significant quality of life for its citizens.
Communism on the other hand has largely always moved to an authoritarian beat, China and Laos and Cuba and North Korea are all prime examples of this in the present day. Much like the two party system in the USA has hindered its democracy I don’t see how a one party system with strong central rule is not a HUGE step back from that. At least we have a semblance of choice and the mechanisms to fix what is broken.
Why do you prefer a form of government that takes choice away from its citizens?
We don't, we support proletarian democracy, not bourgeoisie electoralism.
Anna L. Strong, This Soviet World, Chapter III: The Dictatorship
EPUB
This is a post advocating for communism.
Communism allows elections and choice for its people?
Where?
::: spoiler During the Stalin years in the Soviet Union
Anna L. Strong, This Soviet World, Chapter IV: The Growing Democracy
Yes, full-time, though the plight of the unemployed and unhoused is equally important. Not telling you any more, not doxxing myself. Additionally, it absolutely is not relevant.
Yes.
The US is a dying Empire. It has no long-term future, conditions are worsening. Disparity is rising and will continue to do so, and Real Wages will continue to stagnate. The world is already throwing the US off their backs at increasing rates.
Meanwhile, Socialism has stable growth over time that doesn't depend on self-destructive systems like Capitalism or Imperialism.
Social Democracy is not Socialism. I am not talking about Capitalism where "the government does some extra stuff." Social Democracy in the Global North depends on Imperialism to support itself, and worker protections are crumbling as disparity rises. Social Democracy is a temporary concession.
Do you actually know how these countries function, democratically and politically? This isn't a gotcha, I want to know to what extent you're familiar so we can even begin to talk about them. Even then, North Korea isn't a One-Party State.
I don't, that's why I am a Communist and not a Liberal. Come on, this was a useless gotcha.
In what communist nation are there free elections?
I don’t understand this mental gymnastics.
You’re talking about the benefits of socialism while advocating for communism but my questions have been about communism.
In what communist nation do you have free elections?
In what communist nation do the people actually choose their leadership, instead of a “elite (but remember communism is supposed to be classless…) group that elects the leaders”?
Communism is a novel idea BUT it hasn’t done a very good job demonstrating its benefits to the world. That’s the unfortunate reality of the situation.
All of them practice democracy. What do you mean by "free?" Is that a vibe, where if Socialist = false, Capitalist = true?
I’m not talking about socialism.
I’m talking about communism.
This post is about communism.
You’re advocating for communism.
The terms are not interchangeable.
The terms were used interchangeably by Marx.
So we’ve decided socialism was invented by Marx then?
You are talking about Socialism, Communism is the status after Socialism. "Communism" as a status hasn't been achieved, as it must be global, so we are talking about Socialism, and Marxism, the path to build Communism.
If only you spent even a fraction of time you've spent trolling here actually educating yourself on the subject.
Europe is not socialist. Socialism requires ownership of the means of production by the proletariat, no western European nation has had that, and the eastern ones got overthrown and capitalism re-instated.
Communism is ownership of production, socialism is social safety nets managed by the government like free Healthcare. And sure most of Europe probably is just the lite version of that.
No.
Socialism is Worker Ownership of the Means of Production, and a transitional state towards Communism.
Social Safety Nets are Social Safety Nets.
Remember that our CoC applies even on communities outside our instance. Try to avoid personal attacks and telling people to harm themselves per CoC 3.2 and 3.7. Continued failure to do so will lead to a temporary or permanent ban.
Lmao
That's social, not socialist. Yes, entire Europe is social(maybe except UK), even dictatorships(Russia, Belarus) in Europe have social element. And Europe is not socialist for over 30 years.
The very first sentence from Wikipedia: Socialism
Who owns the means of production in Europe? The capitalist class, same as in every other capitalist state. Social welfare under capitalism is not socialism.
I already covered this elsewhere in this post.
We’re done here.
Europe is Capitalist and Imperalist. What the USSR had was Socialism.
Please explain exactly why you think Europe is "Socialist," lmao.
Even if you hate communism, calling the EU socialist is hilarious. Seems a lot of people in this thread have never even read a basic dictionary definition for socialism. I am surprised the people replying to you even know there is supposed to be a difference between socialism and communism.
Legitimately frustrating. As a Communist, I try my best to help people understand just what these terms actually mean, and explain why people such as myself support Communism, but there are people that cling to nonsense definitions and shroud themselves in mystery.
Decades of calling everything you don't like, and any government support, communism, I guess.
I spose when something gets elevated to the level of heresy, then everything even remotely negative gets associated with it.
yup, heresy is a exactly how it is treated.
maybe, before the '56 invasion this could have happened, but I'm dubious. And after Hungary, lol, fuck right off thinking the capitalist world should support your communist brutality.
“Fascism is good, actually.”
get ~~fucked~~ oops that's not civil.
fuck fascism and it's practitioners.