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'We are all Gisèle': French women rise up against 'rape culture' during Gisèle Pelicot trial (www.usatoday.com)

submitted 1 month ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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They line up in front of a courthouse in southeastern France, from morning to evening, and have gathered in the thousands in cities across the country. They hold signs reading, "one rape every six minutes," "not all men but always a man," and "giving in is not consenting."

They chant: "Rapist we see you, victim we believe you."

Women across France are rallying in support of Gisèle Pelicot, a 72-year-old reluctant icon whose husband is on trial in the city of Avignon for systematically drugging her and inviting dozens of men, 50 of whom are now his co-defendants, into their home to rape her over nearly a decade.

The shocking case has sparked what many women in France call a long-overdue reckoning over "rape culture" and systemic sexism in the way the judicial system handles sexual violence.

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[-] pyre@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

guys always is an embellishment. it's almost funny that not all men became not always men. obviously not always men but if you think the numbers are comparable you're living in a fantasy land.

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Most men never report, or if they do it's ignored. I've only told one person irl about the 2x it's happened to me (both times I was forced by women btw, how's that for "it's always men" hmm?)

MAYBE if whenever we claim "it's all men" or "it's always men" or some such sentiment "it always devolves into a discussion about how it's not all men," MAYBE it's time to stop doing that so the conversation can fucking progress? Nah let's keep up the tribalism, it's more fun to sow division than actually work on the issue at hand. Ffs.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

I think it's more that as a non rapist I don't really take it personally when women talk about concerns about the general attitude they receive from men.

[-] Allero@lemmy.today 9 points 1 month ago

As a non-rapist, I'm sick of constantly being seen as a high-risk individual just for having a penis despite dedicating a lot of attention to consent and being generally a highly empathetic person.

People who know me well trust me and see me as a very safe and gentle person - but in the outside world, I'm equated with rapists around a random trait.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world -5 points 1 month ago

well yeah. are you suggesting women should just trust you because you seem nice? their interactions with men from the moment they first set foot out their door suggests otherwise. to them you are high risk until they know you. you admit that once people know you they do trust you do why are you being so offended that people who don't know you don't? they shouldn't.

you shouldn't trust any woman that she won't do anything bad to you either, but the fact remains that you're in much less of a risk in that regard than a random woman around a random man. the mere notion that this is in any way an equivalent risk is ridiculous.

[-] Allero@lemmy.today 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The thing is, the amount of fear displayed against men is disproportional to the actual risk they pose. This probably has cultural roots, as awareness of such risks turned into an overreaction.

More and more research comes out showing women are fully capable of abusive behavior and display it much more often that we've come to believe, yet as little light is shed on this in the public eye, women are still perceived as much more safe, which isn't true either.

And besides, "men" are too big and diverse of a group to reasonably tie to any possible behavior.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world -5 points 1 month ago

I specifically noted that I don't believe in any essential differences between men and women. this is all societal, and patriarchy plays a big role not only in the predation of women but also men and the subsequent lack of reporting.

but in the current society women are safer than men. I have never set foot out my door and considered the possibility of being sexually harassed. women do it every time, and no, not just because our perceptions are skewed, but because we have different experiences.

this is anecdotal because i can't do studies. most of the time defenses are put up by women because they actually go through something. not because they start life that way.

[-] Allero@lemmy.today 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

And I specifically meant to say we gain ever increasing knowledge that women are not safer in many regards - not just inherently, but overall. While brute-force attacks against men are less common, harassment, coercion, mental abuse and manipulations are rampant, and are weaponized against everyone, including strangers. (With that being said, some women, especially armed, do engage in direct physical abuse, and men can use mental one).

And I wonder what part of fears average woman faces is personal experience vs culture and upbringing. Same events can be interpreted in many different ways depending on how you are preconditioned, and if we'd train men to be wary of women, we'd certainly see more fears spread around. (Mind you, I do not say women do not face real and clear instances of abuse; some do!)

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago

Well maybe it takes being raped by two different woman before you start feeling bad about being called a rapist for existing with penis despite being a victim. In any case your feelings are not universal and you don't get to minimize my experiences and tell me how to feel about being categorized with the aggressors while the people who raped ME are categorized with the "only victims who can do no wrong" gender.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

this doesn't at all follow my comment so I assume you replied by accident. you're just airing grievances, which is your right, but it's a non sequitur.

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago

I think it's more that as a non rapist I don't really take it personally when women talk about concerns about the general attitude they receive from men.

Basically what I'm saying is, maybe you don't take it personally because you haven't been raped by women before, but I do take it personally because I have.

[-] Mango@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

The numbers are also suppressed for men because we are not believed or taken seriously whereas women are typically believed by default.

[+] pyre@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I mean even considering that. if we magically learned the real numbers today there should still be a grand canyon between them. if you think it's any close you're either fooling yourself or biased by personal trauma.

just as a note: the argument I'm making is not based on any essential characteristics of men vs women. I'm not arguing men are biologically coded to SA more or whatever. it's about societal conditions. conditions which, by the way, contribute to the problem you're talking about.

[-] Mango@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

What ratio do you think has any meaning? What if the meaning is just that men have a higher "success rate" for just being better at it or even just being scarier. What if it just means men are more often consenting where they otherwise shouldn't be?

[-] rekabis@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 month ago

but if you think the numbers are comparable you're living in a fantasy land.

The CDC - the largest medical org on the f**king planet - has clearly established that women rape men as frequently as men rape women:

And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.

We’re not the ones living in fantasy land -- you are, by either ignorance or malice. Which is your source of gender bigotry and misandry?

this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2024

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