1198
submitted 3 weeks ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

lol. entire wall of text predicated on a position that is easily filled without congressional confirmed. someone didn't pay attention to trumps presidency at all.

but lets hit on the misconceptions you're spouting.

Once something becomes law, the President “has” to carry it out

incorrect. Presidents have refused to enforce/carry out laws repeatedly throughout history. that's one of the powers of the executive branch. its not explicit but there is no enforcement mechanism. Your assertion that congress can sue is 100% true. what you're missing is that during that time the president can just not due what the law says and these things can take years. Secondly even if a judge blocks an EO the president can still do it the judge has no enforcement mechanism. You may have learned about this little system in grade school: The honor system. which is entirely useless. There are historical instance of this such as worcester v georgia. abraham lincoln did it w/ habeus corpus and more recently Franklin D. Roosevelt.

But Harris likely wouldn’t have Blinken as Secretary of State, which would fix A WHOLE LOT.

biden can easily deal with blinken, its called firing and assigning a temporary individual to the role. not like he has a lot of time left there'd be no time to confirm a new individual anyways. Blinken simply isn't the issue, biden was until we got rid of him by not supporting him. Now Harris is, she's the one who has committed to genocide at this point thats causing the issue not blinken.

You're entire 'civics' lesson ignores the historical realities of the presidency and EOs. especially in light of the recent SCOTUS ruling on presidential powers which expanded this ability by conferring it judicial backing.

[-] IHeartBadCode@fedia.io 0 points 3 weeks ago

Ugh. This is why I hate summary because there's always someone who is like "you didn't explain EvErYtHiNg so you're wrong!" While you're trying to flesh things out you always miss a ton of things too that neither one of us touched on, and I didn't because it increases what needs to be talked about when what I originally said was correct.

entire wall of text

I hate this term because it shows that people are trying to oversimplify something that is in itself complex. Additionally, you're trying to point out things but you didn't cover everything either. Which is why especially here, this annoying. You're basically trying to make an argument of "you explain too much" and "you didn't explain enough". It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't argument that you're trying to make. I'm calling you out on it because you are attempting a no correct way to answer line of questioning. I'll give you this reply, but you keep going on this thread like this, I'll just block you. I don't have the time for childish game. If you have a point make it, if you don't stop beating around the bush. That's all there is to it.

a position that is easily filled without congressional confirmed

That's not correct. I'll point to the Federal Vacancies Reform Act of 1998 5 USC § 3345. You seem smart enough, you can figure out why Sec. of State quitting and the deputy becoming acting would trigger such a response.

someone didn't pay attention to trumps presidency at all

Again, I'll point to the many failures on exclusive authority during that term. Namely you can see the multiple failures along the regulation of coal that failed exclusive authority. Acting has only nonexclusive duties for the 210 day period and the extended period of 300 days on inauguration. Hence the failures on rule making.

what you're missing is that during that time the president can just not due what the law says and these things can take years.

Yes, this is why enjoining an EO exists as a measure for the courts. Immediate relief is something the claimants can seek when bringing the issue up to the courts. That's why you hear emergency relief often with controversial orders.

Secondly even if a judge blocks an EO the president can still do it the judge has no enforcement mechanism.

The enforcement is via Congress at that point. If a just rules something as violation of the Court order, that's easily handled by Congress.

worcester v georgia

Just so we're clear the Nullification scandal, Jackson indicated he was ready to march troops into South Carolina and shooting the government if need be. That was with eye to Georgia daring them the exact same thing. We'd revisit that willingness to march troops into the State and start shooting State Government members about thirty years later.

So just, so we're clear the Worcester you cite, we got ready to have a preemptive war over the matter. I'm not sure the argument you're providing holds a lot of water here in that "they can do what they want to do with no ramifications". Clearly getting shot at by the Army is a ramification that at the time neither party wanted to try out. But we did give it a go a bit later.

abraham lincoln did it w/ habeus corpus

Yeah. Thing called the Civil War.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

Was kicked to Congress, like I said it would be. Was mulled and Congress decided to take a pass. But that's not free from consequences. Additionally, Congress had indicated to FDR to wrap that shit up with the alphabet groups. You'll note how many of them didn't last. CCC still a thing?

biden can easily deal with blinken, its called firing and assigning a temporary individual to the role

Again see FVRA.

not like he has a lot of time left there'd be no time to confirm a new individual anyways

Again see FVRA, carry over has a lot more impact in the first 300 day period than having an acting position.

Now Harris is, she's the one who has committed to genocide at this point thats causing the issue not blinken

That is just plainly incorrect.

You're entire 'civics' lesson ignores the historical realities of the presidency and EOs

And you covered zero of them either. I've provided more context to the examples that you gave. But the reality is that "the historical realities of EOs" is a complex issue. But apparently you don't like walls of text.

especially in light of the recent SCOTUS ruling on presidential powers which expanded this ability by conferring it judicial backing

I take it that you are referring to Trump v US. None of that has any bearing on the matter of what Bliken does or doesn't do. If Biden simply just withheld funds and gave everyone the finger, he'd still be subject to Congressional review of his actions and possible impeachment. That is not being free of ramifications.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

Lol, all of it comes down to enforcement as you well know and the fact is there would be none. Everything you cited are either) insanely unlikely or not a function of our branches. Getting shot at by a member of the military? Lol. Please. Not remotely relevant.

Impeachment today is essentially toothless. Particularly in biden's case as hes done with office anyways.

So as i said: in the three months remaining of bidens term he could 1) absolutely dump blinken and replace him, not an issue. 2) can absolutely withhold weapons see leahy. 3) the history of the president defying judicial orders is well supported.

FVRA

Id give a shit if it actually meant anything. You clearly confuse words on paper with real world consequences.

I take it that you are referring to Trump v US. None of that has any bearing on the matter of what Bliken does or doesn’t do.

Correct it has bearing on what biden can do. I.e. fire him and replace at his leisure. Which is why you're trying to place the blame on bliken because as you know biden has many options on the table for gaza he is just unwilling to use them because he is a Zionist.

You'll note that in you 2nd wall of nonsense. Not once have you managed to identify how the judicial branch can hold a president accountable.

Yes congress might, though as we both know they almost certainly won't and essentially has never happened. oh no impeachment, poor 2 timer trump has suffered zero consequences from it. And that was after trying to overthrow the government. Lol @ congress taking a pass not equaling consequence free. But i see your issue you think someone filing paper work is a consequence. 😂 Identify material consequences a president has suffered as a result of defying congress or a judicial order? You'll find very few.

And it amuses me you claim harris isnt culpable for the genocide, she absolutely is and you know it which is why you won't expand on in detail as you're so very happy to do.

The fact biden is a Zionist is why gaza is continuing it literally has nothing to do with blinken. There are many paths biden can take to deal with him. He can fire him, countermand him, or execute him thanks to scotus.

Stop wasting everyones time by trying to argue the indefensible. You're clearly one of the dunces who thinks rules on paper matter even though people break them constantly in the real world with zero problems.

[-] IHeartBadCode@fedia.io 1 points 3 weeks ago

can absolutely withhold weapons see leahy

He can't legally, and Republicans in the House would absolutely jump at the chance to impeach Biden and have it carry over into the next session as Democrats did with Trump's second impeachment. It would literally be the train they ride till midterms.

Gosh you are really bad at this.

You clearly confuse words on paper with real world consequences

I don't think you've ever worked for the Government. You are insanely bad at this.

I've given you plenty of opportunity and you're just spewing "nothing means anything anymore!!!" Gosh, it's not like I haven't met countless numbers of you types.

Not once have you managed to identify how the judicial branch can hold a president accountable\

Enjoined. You clearly aren't reading anything, I'm not typing any more. Consider yourself blocked, you are a waste of time.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

snicker oh no! republicans impeachment! whatever will we do. it'll take them longer to run the impeachment trial than he has time left in office! rofl. OH NO! biden will be PUNISHED with.... wait for it.... removal from office. THE HORROR.

  1. vacancies act has no punishment clauses. its toothless.
  2. you're statements about 'failures for coal regulation' were not punishments. they were rejections of changes in policy. fun fact: enforcing leahy would not be a change in policy. its codified law.
  3. presidents have been ignoring the legal law for weed for almost a decade now. why? because presidents have chosen not to enforce it.

your coal example: sigh lets talk about how they were rolled back during biden's term. Why? because biden agreed with the courts and didn't like the policies to begin with. but the courts most certainly didnt force trump to roll them back.

you really dont get how to wield executive power. 90% of it is doing what you want letting people challenge it and by the time it gets through the court you've already accomplished what you wanted. my entire point has been there is 0 negative outcome for a president to exercise flagrant violations of law. israel is a prime example of this in fact.

You're simply dense and can't see the facts through your rose tinged glasses of your belief in law and order. fucking gaza is a straight up example of this. Those who control enforcement control which laws are upheld and there is jack shit courts can do about this. trump abused the fuck out of this.

selective enforcement please read up on it. it applies here.

Enjoined. You clearly aren’t reading anything, I’m not typing any more. Consider yourself blocked, you are a waste of time.

is like your version of congressional impeachment? oh no.... whatever will I do. only reason I was responding to you was so everyone else knows what a load of nonsense your shit was.

this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
1198 points (97.5% liked)

politics

19120 readers
2640 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS