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Remember being 15 (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I remember. And what it taught me is that in the eyes of society at large I wasn't a real person until I was 21. It also taught me that society may PUNISH adults who try to treat people under 21 as though they're real human beings. You see, that's (not really) "GROOMING". Also, in any case other than violent criminality, any action a human being takes under the age of 18 is attributable to their guardians, "because they don't understand what they were doing". But the acts of violent criminality? Tried as an adult "because they clearly had to have understood what they were doing".

Look. I hate it, but: we treat children like second class citizens, like pets, like slaves, because it's dangerous to do otherwise. Children are a fucking minefield of legal grey areas and drastically accelerated consequences. The shit you and I live through on a daily basis gets brushed off as "that's just life" but if it happens to a fifteen year old "ARE YOU CRAZY THEY'RE ONLY A CHILD". And I'm not so sure I'd be able to meaningfully or successfully argue against that if I ever found myself in a position where I'm found culpable for someone of that age group.

Gods help me I think I'd rather die than have children of my own, but if I ever did, I'd have to be honest with them about all the terrible features of the society in which we live:

"To me you're a person, and if you ask anyone else you're a person, but if the shit ever went down the law would treat you as though you are a pet. I want you to feel secure in your privacy, in your autonomy, in your possession of material objects, but if anything happens that forces the law to cast its glaring gaze upon our lives they have the power to take everything from both of us.
"It is NOT your fault, but nevertheless we are both hostages until you are emancipated either by the clock running out or by legal declaration. I tell you this not to demoralized you but to prepare you. I do not want you to roll over; I would hope that you might find some way instead to steal your resolve. But the fact is, the society in which we live creates a toxic power dynamic between us. They stand above us, point at me, and command that I must be an adversary to you lest THEY need to step in and become your adversary, and they will be much more painful to deal with than me. This world is a prison and has forced upon me the role as YOUR warden, and if I fail to perform that role to the satisfaction of the authorities, they WILL punish us both.
"I need you to be vigilant. I need you to take care around me. I need you to minimize our household's exposure to liability. But as long as you do that, I will endeavor to stay out of your business. As long as I am not provided a motive upon which I am forced to act, I would like to never have to go into your room or go through your personal effects. I need plausible deniability so that I do not haver to LIE at a jury trial when a judge turns to me and asks 'and you knowingly let this happen under your own roof?' - and even then it's almost equally damning if the legal system has any excuse to accuse of me 'you didn't know this was happening right under your nose!'. But until or unless our camouflage is compromised, I will ensure that you have access to shelter, sustenance, privacy, and dignity."

And if your reaction to the prospect of admitting all this to "just a child" is revulsion and dread... THAT very reaction is why we don't treat children like people.

[-] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

My dad treated me like that. After my mom died, my dad treated me like a small adult over whom he had no authority for the entirety of my teenage years, didn’t go through my room, didn’t tell me what to do, but tried to reason with me and convince me.

It didn’t work out well, because I was a child. I was nowhere near mature enough to handle that responsibility (my siblings and I were three stereotypes of too much freedom when we were younger- a recovering alcoholic, a born again Christian, and a kleptomaniac) and it made me feel unloved and like a burden. He does love me and was living the golden rule, but it turns out it’s not universally applicable.

[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 1 points 22 hours ago

Hence the impasse we find ourselves upon...

I would be ethically unable to treat a human being like a subhuman pet even though, as you said:

(...) to reason with and convince (...) didn't with out well, because children.

... and that they are not adults.

Nowhere near mature enough to handle that responsibility.

To NOT treat them as equal, to acknowledge their incompleteness as sapient beings, puts me in an impossible position. Parenting makes hypocrites of us all. Some of us can't do it. I would be unable to do it. I know better than to try. It's simply not within my capacity to undermine the autonomy of a being without feeling like I'm punishing them. To do so to a being that has not done anything wrong is corrosive to my humanity.

You have my sympathy that it was so difficult for you to go through. I endeavor to NEVER put someone through that.

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this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2024
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