1359
Tear it all down
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025
1359 points (99.1% liked)
Late Stage Capitalism
496 readers
10 users here now
A place for for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
A zero-tolerance policy for bigotry of any kind. Failure to respect this will result in a ban.
RULES:
1 Understand the left starts at anti-capitalism.
2 No Trolling
3 No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism, liberalism is in direct conflict with the left. Support for capitalism or for the parties or ideologies that uphold it are not welcome or tolerated.
4 No imperialism, conservatism, reactionism or Zionism, lessor evil rhetoric. Dismissing 3rd party votes or 'wasted votes on 3rd party' is lessor evil rhetoric.
5 No bigotry, no racism, sexism, antisemitism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, or any type of prejudice.
6 Be civil in comments and no accusations of being a bot, 'paid by Putin,' Tankie, etc.
founded 3 months ago
MODERATORS
That's because they know the patient is going to die and it will be cheaper for them that way.
Their actions will ensure the patient dies.
That's how they know
No it won't. Hospitals are required to provide life saving care until the patient is stable regardless of insurance.
That's different from preventing death. Trying to stabilise a terminal cancer patient is significantly different from treating it before it becomes terminal, being in a coma might not be immediately live threatening but removing the patient from the hospital until it becomes so can remove any chance of recovery. And even if you survive, if you only get treatment when it's already a life or death situation the outcomes can be much worse.
In this case the patient has a brain hemorrhage, which means they aren't stable and the hospital would be required to provide emergency care for it.
And then pass all those costs onto the patient/their family.
This is the reason I believe every health insurance plan should also include life insurance from the same company. You need to give those assholes an incentive to keep me alive and healthy.
No, then you would just get the equivalent of your car being totaled. If it costs more to fix your body than it does to pay out the life insurance, they will let you die and pay the life insurance.
It still decreases the incentive though. They'll let you die without having to pay a dime
Currently they just let you die and don't pay anything.
This kills the patient.
Even in countries with universal healthcare, these decisions also need to be made. We don't have unlimited money or resources to spend when cases are likely hopeless.
They do need to be made. By medical professionals. The people who can actually determine who's viable to save and who can best utilize resources, and who actually know if there even is a shortage. Which there usually isn't.
The last people you want doing it are the people with a financial incentive to always deny care.
That's called a death panel. We shouldn't have those, and insurance companies DEFINITELY shouldn't have those.
What is the insurance company if not a death panel?
In the ideal world, an insurance company handles the paperwork of collecting money for risk pooling and paying the bills as they come in, as well as assessing individual risks to set premiums.
Sort of like most other insurance industries. Maybe arguing about if you paid for coverage, but not actually arguing that you don't need the fix.
Your car insurance might argue you aren't covered for damage that happened while the car was parked in the garage, but they won't try to argue that your car might not actually require a new windshield since you haven't tried plastic wrap yet.
In this ideal world, the people making the decision to ration care would be... The doctors, who are perfectly positioned to do this, and actually do when there's a real need to do so.
A death panel fully acknowledges that the patient will die if they decide not to treat, and consider that against the possibility of saving more lives with the limited resources allocated to them. An insurance company pretends the patient doesn't really need the expensive treatment that doctors have determined is crucial to save their lives, and the money saved doesn't go into treating other people - it goes into profit.
Wasn't "Death Panel" a bullshit line spouted by Sarah Palin? I am yet to see any evidence of them in countries that have social healthcare.
That's the neat part, we already had death panels and they were trying to make it sound like they'd be a new thing. Instead, we get some unaccountable fucking bean counters determining if you get to live instead of someone with a goddamned degree and a basic knowledge of your situation.
So you're saying it's the insurance company's job is to decide who is in a state to die, not a doctor. Why do we even have doctors? So when you have a medical emergency, why won't you just go to the insurance company instead of a hospital, when the company is better in making medical decisions anyway?
This may be new to you, but insurance companies have no medical training.
The state of the woman in the ICU might sound hopeless but the coma can be medically induced due to the brain hemorrhage and with the proper medical care she could recover, if indeed her state isn't too bad. This is something doctors are for, to calculate her chances and fight for her life if there is a chance of survival. If there's no chance, it's the family's choice to pull the plug.
But you're fine with an insurance company calculating what it might cost to them then to make the decision to let her die?
It's my understanding that a doctor, employed by the insurance agency, makes these calls.
If only those "doctors" had to put their malpractice insurance on the line when making these calls. Bet you'd have a lot less of this bullshit when the people making the call are liable instead of getting paid to kill people.
Nope.
Astounding rebuttal. I am obviously wrong. The votes prove it!
A doctor is only allowed to be a doctor when they took the Hippocratic Oath. They will lose it when they would give up people their lives for the profits of an insurance company. Doctors do not work for them, the people judging whether they will payout your insurance claim have no medical training.
A doctor who has never seen the patient and often isn’t even the specialty needed to make the call.
If an insurance company denys you, demand to know the name, speciality, and license number of the doctor who denied you. Often a doctor wasn’t involved. And when you find that out it’s illegal.
They're in the ICU right now with Doctors saying they have the resources, they just need the authorization.
You're talking about triage which generally only comes into play after massive casualty events.
I'm not disputing that this isn't triage, but I just wanted to clear something up about what triage is: Triage happens everyday in emergency rooms of hospitals. Just normal every day triage is sorting (= trier in french) the patients according to urgency of care and availability of resources. Someone bleeding out will be helped before someone with a broken bone for example.
I don't know if there is a separate term for the kind of emergency triage where some patients are left to die because of insufficient resources.
Made by doctors. This one deemed it necessary to make a claim.
That doesn't make it medically unnecessary, though.
But it is not up to any company to decide on life, even if the chances look very dim. Where I live you can can have a a written will for such cases or your relatives decide. If there are non you will be taken care of till the end, but you can have decided in advance that you don't want life expanding care over a certain degree to minimise the chance for you to live the rest of your life not really being more than a hull.
That's where the doctor in charge of care says "nothing we can feasibly do will bring this patient to a better state."
Americans spend more per capita on health care thab anyone else. They just get shitty value for it, because of all these worthless parasites skimming off the top while actively hindering health care delivery.
Good thing unlimited money isn't needed.