this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2025
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Fairvote Canada

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What is This Group is About?

De Quoi Parle ce Groupe?

The unofficial non-partisan Lemmy movement to bring proportional representation to all levels of government in Canada.

🗳️Voters deserve more choice and accountability from all politicians.

Le mouvement non officiel et non partisan de Lemmy visant à introduire la représentation proportionnelle à tous les niveaux de gouvernement au Canada.

🗳️Les électeurs méritent davantage de choix et de responsabilité de la part de tous les politiciens.

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We're looking for more moderators, especially those who are of French and indigenous identities.

Nous recherchons davantage de modérateurs, notamment ceux qui sont d'identité française et autochtone.

founded 9 months ago
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Sunshine@lemmy.ca
AlolanVulpix@lemmy.ca
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B.C. New Democrat and B.C. Greens finalize agreement: The accord sets out shared policy initiatives and deliverables for 2025 focused on ... democratic and electoral reform - BC Green Caucus (bcgreencaucus.ca)
submitted 1 week ago by AlolanVulpix@lemmy.ca to c/fairvote@lemmy.ca
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Full text agreement here.

Section 3 – Policy Initiatives & 2025 Deliverables

11. Democratic and Electoral Reform

The Parties will work together to create a special legislative all-party committee to evaluate and recommend policy and legislation measures to be pursued beginning in 2026 to increase democratic engagement & voter participation, address increasing political polarization, and improve the representativeness of government. The committee will review and consider preferred methods of proportional representation as part of its deliberations. The Government will work with the BCGC to establish the detailed terms of reference for this review, which are subject to the approval of both parties. The terms of reference will include the ability to receive expert and public input, provide for completion of the Special Committee’s work in Summer 2025, and public release of the Committee’s report within 45 days of completion. The committee will also review the administration of the 43rd provincial general election, including consideration of the Chief Electoral Officer’s report on the 43rd provincial general election, and make recommendations for future elections.

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[–] AlolanVulpix@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

Seems rude to come in and argue the merits of PR in a community devoted to it, apologies, I’m happy to let it be.

I mean, we live in a democratic society, so free speech is encouraged.

Edit: also if there were a hypothetical system superior to proportional representation, I'd be in favour of it after rigorous consideration. I'm not bound to any particular electoral system.

If you read about what’s happening in those countries, you’ll realize it’s not about the culture, it’s that PR incentivizes really bad outcomes. Take Germany for example. Just like here, a small minority of people would vote for really hateful parties that are toxic and should be avoided

How is that a "bad outcome" when it's literally what people voted for. Electoral systems are not supposed to decide the ideological makeup of government.

It's not PR you are against, you are against a characteristic inherent of democracy itself.

has made the other parties form really broad and thus ineffective coalitions, which are unable to push forward significant legislation

Is this worse than the big tent parties we have now, that members can't vote or think independent of their party leaders?

an absolute pure democracy where every bill, item etc was voted on by everyone. That would certainly be the ultimate in democracy, but it would be a terrible way to run a country and likely lead to some insane policy choices

What does this have anything to do with our conversation? We aren't discussing representative democracy versus direct democracy. We are discussing proportional representation vs non-proportional representation.

My entire point is that PR, while really groovy on paper, tends to produce really bad outcomes and thus sacrifices a lot of the efficiency of government (and of voting frankly) for some (arguably temporary) democratic gain

  1. Tends to produce bad outcomes how exactly? You would need to describe an outcome that you would not see under any democracy.
  2. Sacrifices the efficiency of government how? And is "efficiency" more important than policy that the majority actually agree on?
  3. Your argument against PR is that voting is "inefficient", therefore we should allow non-proportional governments?
  4. How is it "temporary" democratic gain, when there are more mathematical criteria satisfied under PR systems for producing democratic systems?
[–] cosmog@sfba.social 1 points 1 week ago (37 children)

@AlolanVulpix @MyBrainHurts Sorry I know this isn't directly abt PR for Canada. But isn't Germany really an example of PR success? AFD is not in government. In the US, a similar movement (MAGA) pretty easily parlayed a small plurality within one party into a takeover of every government branch.

[–] AlolanVulpix@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago (24 children)

I'm not about to have a full discussion about PR causing success or not. I'm sure there are already articles written on it.

However, if we live in a democracy, we are deserving of and entitled to representation in government, and only proportional representation can get us there. A democracy necessarily requires everyone having a seat at the table, and in a representative democracy, vote percentage must equal seat percentage.

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