this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2025
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    [–] lmuel@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 week ago (34 children)

    Ladybird is certainly interesting to watch, it's improving quite quickly.

    I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like... seriously?

    [–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago (31 children)

    Any details on that comment? Curious...

    [–] mke@programming.dev 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (30 children)

    I'll give my take on it. Something many fail to grasp is that it's not about a singular thing, you need to look at the context. Let's go through some of it:

    • Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes "he" to "they" in documentation.
      • This is the most frequently mentioned example of Andreas' issues.
      • The "he" in question referred to any user, where "they" is already commonly used instead by everything from companies, to news, to the Linux Kernel docs (an arguably much more important software project).
      • Andreas' exact words: "This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics."
      • This code was eventually merged 3 years laters in a different PR, this time described as "Grammar fixes" (it changes even more pronouns to gender neutral than the original did).
      • Someone got his attention and tried to explain to him why that's not cool; he doubled down, assuming the worst from the original contributor.
    • Andreas Kling likes interacting with far-right, queerphobic, or otherwise controversial persons.
      • Here's him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for... being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, "Senpai."
      • Here's him welcoming Vaxry, infamous for the toxic community of his hyprland project to the point of being kicked out of the freedesktop.org project. He's also on record saying "I do believe there could be arguments to sway my opinion towards genocide". There is a print of this, somewhere. I will find it and put it here.
      • Here's him doing a talk with Bryan Lunduke, tech's premier transphobe anti-DEI, anti-Woke conspiracy theorist with a classic far-right victim-complex.
        • Trudging through Bryan's slop wears on the mind, but here's another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: "There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years..."
          • Read anything by Bryan, then look into what he's talking about. There are at least as many examples, as there are times Bryan has touched upon LGBT topics or linux in recent years.
        • Here's relatively prominent KDE developer Niccolò's hour long video detailing how Bryan is a horrible, lying "journalist," and how people need to stop giving him a stage.
      • He also often interacts with other various degrees of right-leaning users on twitter, a platform he describes as full of positive energy, unlike Mastodon.
        • For fun, I would like to share with you, dear reader, my favorite comic about the state of twitter.
    • Other quirky things about Andreas that could be irrelevant in isolation but... please, put the pieces together. I'm begging you, look at the full picture. Is there truly nothing off about all of this?

    Would I look at that PR and say I'm not touching Andreas with a ten-foot pole? Maybe that's excessive. Would I ignore all the rest and say he's just misunderstood? Hell no. For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I cannot support it until Andreas gets his shit sorted.

    P.P.S. I'm tired. Of all this.

    [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    There’s Servo too. So ladybird can crash and burn for all I care.

    [–] mke@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

    In fairness, these projects have different objectives. Ladybird aims to be a full browser, Servo doesn't.

    Ladybird is a brand-new browser & web engine ...

    Servo is a web browser rendering engine ...

    There is Verso, which aims to build a browser on Servo, but it's still very young (though, I suppose that applies to LB as well). Ideally, I'd like to see all these projects grow into complete solutions. I think that'd be healthier for the internet. It's just really difficult to support Ladybird with Andreas as he's acting right now.

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