this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2025
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Germany is at a crossroads when it comes to its security policy โ€” one of the deepest upheavals of the post-War era.

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[โ€“] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 123 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

I just want to point out, that we are really talking about building nukes again in 2025.

[โ€“] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 47 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Well, I'm not a big fan of nuclear proliferation but Ukraine gave up theirs and look what happened...
As long as we have imperialistic authoritarian world leaders, we will need ways to keep them at bay, and nuclear deterrence is probably the best one unfortunately...

[โ€“] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 4 days ago

Yep. I'm really hoping we can build on the nuclear arsenals the non-US West has going already, though.

[โ€“] Kissaki@feddit.org 6 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I wonder if Putin would have bet on them not being used and attacked anyway.

Just like Putin has not used any nuke, there's a huge deterrent to use them at all.

I could definitely see Putin making calculated decisions like that.

Of course Ukraine would have had a stronger stand with them either way.

[โ€“] KinglyWeevil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

There was a sincere risk of Russia using nuclear weapons earlier in the conflict, around the winter of 2022/2023 when the first major Russian mobilization of 600k failed to achieve the desired outcomes and the North Western front started to collapse. The released intelligence info put it at about 50/50.

This is why, at the time, the Biden administration made several clearly coded messages/announcements that nuclear weapons usage in Ukraine would result in an overwhelming conventional retaliation that would remove Russian military capability from the board. It's also part of the reason nations were so slow to provide advanced support capabilities. There was a fear (justified, imo) that immediately opening the floodgates and giving Ukraine tanks, jets, advanced missiles, and using those missiles to strike deep in Russian territory would result in usage of nuclear weapons. It still is a risk, honestly. If Ukraine started doing heavy damage to Moscow, there's a real chance Putin might decide to flip the table over rather than lose the game.

[โ€“] Kissaki@feddit.org 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I must have missed that back then. Thank you for the context.

For sure, it wasn't super widely reported at the time. Nuclear weapons and foreign policy just happen to be "special interests" for me so I tend to follow things like that.

[โ€“] vrojak@feddit.org 2 points 5 days ago

I would expect the blowback for using nukes in defense of your sovereign territory to be a lot less than for conquering another country.

[โ€“] MaggiWuerze@feddit.org 1 points 5 days ago

But you can also see the hesitance from european leaders due to his nukes

[โ€“] baggins@beehaw.org 18 points 6 days ago

We never stopped.

If you think those ones we have now are leftover from the 60s, you are in for a shock.

[โ€“] LordGimp@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

How else are we gonna get that sweet pu238 for our deep space drones?

[โ€“] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

Who would have known Kim Jong Il would be vindicated

[โ€“] NoxAstrum@lemmy.ca -3 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Only those who don't understand the topic. Those of us who study them do not support proliferation.

[โ€“] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 8 points 6 days ago

What study would that be?

[โ€“] M137@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

The thing is that among the people who have the power to make it a reality are many who don't understand the topic. Politicians and other people in power are well known to not understand the stuff they get to make decisions about.