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[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

People that are heavily abstracted in their functional thought do not need notes to learn. The most essential factor is intuitively presented information. Like Richard Feynman said, 'if you can't explain it intuitively, you do not understand the subject in the first place.'

I could pass absolutely any test just by attending a class and listening. I absolutely despised the nominal repetitive framework of homework as oppressive authoritarian nonsense. I attended school to learn and any incompetent wretch that could not do their job in the allotted time they were given on the clock, was not my problem to fix on my time. Training me to be a slave that works at home on my own time is an unethical and immoral methodology that I refused to accept in life even as a kid. It is toxic corporate propaganda at the most fundamental level of society. I work on a clock and never for free, and I am exceptionally competent at understanding what I am told, when I am told, without memorization, or demeaning repetition that lowers my bar of nominal expectation and holds me back to the limits of others.

School was largely structured for memorization skills. Memorization is worthless in the real world. No one is reading their notes from school 45 years later. True understanding is always an abstraction and it is that abstract understanding that, when useful, has long term staying power in the mind. Notes aid in memorization, and if that is what is needed for a person to force the mind into an abstract understanding, so be it. Some of us exist only within or on the edge of abstraction and process information directly in this space.

Don't misunderstand me here. You are not wrong. Most people are not like me in this regard. I tested as an outlier for intuitive inference skills as early as TCAP (Tennessee) in 3rd grade with an invitation to Duke from those results.

I'm simply pointing out that this notes skill is not universal. I would not say I'm the most avid reader, but I have my own hard science fiction universe called Parsec-7 that I like to play with, I've read most of Asimov's fiction, the Dune series, and am sitting in front of a couple hundred books in my closet with everything from optics to astronomy, cycling, mechanical engineering, programming, Linux, to metallurgy, machining, and metal casting. My grammar is terrible, but I generally manage to convey my thoughts to others. My complexity management skills are somewhat weak, and that is the only tangible skill where note taking might have indirectly assisted, but probably not. The abstract concepts underpinning JSON and mind maps are what have helped me far more than notes could have done in any capacity. Anyways, abstraction is the goal. Memorization is a failure.

[–] Libb@jlai.lu 4 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

I could pass absolutely any test just by attending a class and listening. I absolutely despised the nominal repetitive framework of homework as oppressive authoritarian nonsense

I did too. I hope like most kids do (there are much funnier things to do). But I did those stupid homework and studied those boring to death lessons. And beside teaching me the value of constant regular work (instead of short bursts of it), at least when applied to boring stuff, that also taught me how to cope with things I have to do even when I don't like them, even when I despise them like you said.

School was largely structured for memorization skills. Memorization is worthless in the real world. No one is reading their notes from school 45 years later.

True that. But up until very recently I was still reading the notes I had taken some 35 years ago while studying Plato or Marx, and a few other philosophers. Let's just say it also depends the notes ;)

Anyways, abstraction is the goal. Memorization is a failure.

100% agree.... also because note-taking was never about memorizing anything but, like i already said, about synthesizing which, in other words, means being able to understand, summarize and rephrase something one is hearing in one's own words. That is understanding, aka being able to explain to oneself.

Training me to be a slave that works at home on my own time is an unethical and immoral methodology that I refused to accept in life even as a kid. It is toxic corporate propaganda at the most fundamental level of society.

Since you're into reading, I would suggest you may be interested in reading Rousseau's Social Contract, at the very least the first few chapters but the entire book should be relevant. Read the book itself, not one of the many (and too often stupid) summaries that are available. Rousseau's considerations are very articulated, summarizing the book (even when done honestly, which is certainly not always the case) will make you miss a lot. I would also suggest his * Discours sur l'origine et les fondements de l'inégalité parmi les hommes* (Discourse on Inequality).

I have never read it in English myself (I'm French) so I would not want to suggest a poor translation. (If you read French, the latest edition published by GF, under the direction of Bruno Bernardi, is both cheap as fuck and excellent with many detailed annotations that will help most readers that aren't already experts ;)

You may also want to read another book, this time not by one of those nasty Swiss thinkers but by a French dude, like me :P It's titled Discours de la servitude volontaire (Discourse on Voluntary Servitude), by La Boétie. Here again, I have never read it in English and I would not know which translation to suggest. But it's a great read.

Note that those are old books (Rousseau's Contract is from 1760s, and La Boétie published his in 1570-something) so you can easily imagine their style may not be what modern days readers are used to. But those are not large books and they are more than worth reading, even more so knowing how impactful they were on our societies (and knowing how often they're poorly understood by people that can't be bothered to actually read them).

Despite them being short, they also are also rather dense read and I would encourage any beginner to read them with one very good friend so you won't feel alone and you should also not feel afraid to freely discuss your impressions and reactions (no fear of being judged between friends, hopefully) no matter how daring/stupid/nasty your thoughts (another thing younger generations are not used to deal with, alas: being judged is a constant nowadays, that certainly won't help encourage a culture and mentality of real risk-taking) because those are books that are more than likely to provoke some heated discussions and with any luck some disturbing but motivating realizations.

I’m simply pointing out that this notes skill is not universal. I would not say I’m the most avid reader, but I have my own hard science fiction universe called Parsec-7 that I like to play with, I’ve read most of Asimov’s fiction, the Dune series, and am sitting in front of a couple hundred books in my closet with everything from optics to astronomy, cycling, mechanical engineering, programming,

Glad to know that (btw, Asimov was one of my first 'fan' read when I was a kid ;). No doubt there are still many (young) readers out there but what matters is the trend, which is not favorable to reading. You know, like when statisticians say that people are making less kids here in the West (or in China, or in Russia). It doesn't mean no one is having kids anymore, and some families can even even have a lot of kids. It just means that on the whole, in those countries, enough people are not having any kid for the population to start (or to soon start) to decline.

More importantly, not learning proper note-taking (and reading) is not favorable to those kids themselves. It only harm them (it should not impact me, or my spouse).

As a potential employer, who are you more likely to hire between a kid that knows how to pass a school test and a kid that knows how to face whatever you thrown at them (like they're more than likely to deal with in their job)? Reading and note-taking (aka synthesizing on the fly) are certainly not the sole ways to acquire those skills, but they're a great way, cheap and easy (if boring).

Once again, all I'm saying is not that reading/writing is good per se (it's not), nor that those kids are dumber than reading/writing kids. I'm just saying that it's a huge loss for those kids because they're a lot less well prepared and equipped to compete against those other kids whose teachers and families want them to acquire those skills in a world that is highly competitive and that will be even more competitive.

Memorization is a failure.

As a general rule, I tend to steer away from slogans and from black or white definitions (things like 'either you're with us or you're against us') type of definitions.

The real question should be: what's the purpose of educating kids (why the fuck do we force them to waste their younger years sitting for hours in classrooms instead of, say, enjoy playing outside all day long). Only then we should feel allowed to discuss the best best (and worst) ways to achieve that.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

As a general rule, I tend to steer away from slogans and from black or white definitions (things like ‘either you’re with us or you’re against us’) type of definitions.

The phrase you are looking for in English here is dichotomous logic.

I've not been a big reader. It was more of a challenge to read some a couple of series just to say that I have. The vast majority of my books are reference material. I am a Maker; a crafts person. Physical disability from a car crashing into me while riding a bicycle to work 11 years ago has pushed me somewhat into books.

As they say, books about fantasy are for those that regret the past. Books about nonfiction are for those that regret the present. And science fiction is for those that regret the future. Barely surviving a broken neck and back has consequences in the long term that make life much harder and shorter. I know my regrets and what I enjoy reading to escape.

Work is a funny thing. When it is gone from your life suddenly, at a young age, the loss of purpose that work brings is felt very acutely. That is the biggest challenge, or it was for me in the 3-5 year range after the crash.

I owned my own business with employees twice, both times I was painting cars. The hardest lesson to learn with automotive paint and refinishing is how to defeat yourself and your emotions. The perfect standard of automotive paint does not care how many times it takes spraying primer and sanding it down, or prying on some metal, or applying layers of filler. Perfection is a result. It is hard and thankless work because one's greatest triumph is to go completely unnoticed.

I have done many other jobs too. I'm very adaptable. In my opinion, in business, the person that can infer how something works without needing a reference, or learn from watching someone else do a thing once - is a most valuable skill.

I have always been curious about the lowest level processes I can achieve. I don't want to go buy a thing I can go make myself. I liked cars and when I was young I read that, of all the skills that car enthusiasts generally possessed, paint was the rare black art that few people dared to learn or try themselves. So the first thing I learned was how to paint. I built motors and worked in a machine shop porting heads for awhile – another rare art. Before the crash that got me, I was working on my car and many projects that were coming together. One of those was building a small home foundry setup to do my own metal castings.

After the crash, I got into programming microcontrollers and etching my own circuit boards. While everyone was sending board designs to China, I was still making my own at home. With programming I am curious about the lowest levels of compute. I like to build my own little circuits and sensors.

I'm into 3d printing and design. I design all my own stuff from scratch in CAD. I've learned the geometry and figured out the topological naming issue to make proper designs.

I also like reverse engineering circuits in KiCAD and making documentation graphics in Inkscape. I've learned Linux at a reasonably advanced level too. I've scratched the surface of astronomy and building my own eyepieces with lens stacks using surplus lenses and junk.

In all of these things, the common thread is finding purpose in doing whatever thing. It is a seeking of an internal sense of accomplishment. It's all endorphins really. I don't get a sense of satisfaction from politics in general. I often feel frustration and injustice. It is a dangerous feeling for a capable but disabled Maker; to feel such a frustration; to feel like one is not in control of one's destiny. So I avoid it for now, because worrying about things I cannot change is a waste of energy.

[–] Libb@jlai.lu 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

The phrase you are looking for in English here is dichotomous logic.

Thx :)

Work is a funny thing. When it is gone from your life suddenly, at a young age, the loss of purpose that work brings is felt very acutely. That is the biggest challenge, or it was for me in the 3-5 year range after the crash.

I can understand that. I escaped death by sheer luck but surviving meant I had to quit the job I had and the job I dreamed of doing, as a kid. It took me a few years to get over it... And I never worked with the same intensity after that.

I am a Maker; a crafts person.

So am I. Not only with my hands (I even learned to sew, aged 40 and learned soldering electronics in my early 50s) but with my head too. I see no difference except that we don't use the same raw materials ;)

In all of these things, the common thread is finding purpose in doing whatever thing. It is a seeking of an internal sense of accomplishment

100%. It's even more important after the loss of something wed used to be able to do and enjoyed doing so much (not even mentioning we may have been good at doing it). Be it in a car accident like it happened to you, or for any other reason. Feeling we're doing something that's worth it that is key. And I know will start to sound like a broken record but imho that sense of accomplishment is also something that is being taken away from younger people. They're not allowed to feel proud of themselves anymore, which is very... destructive.

I don’t get a sense of satisfaction from politics in general.

I think it would be hard to feel otherwise. no matter where one lives. Here in France, say the whole EU, things are not looking great either. But then I consider our last 500 years of history and realize all the hardship our societies have gone through and how they managed to get out of those better/stronger and I think to myself we may be able to go through what is bound to happen, no matter the incompetency/dishonesty of too many of our politicians.

I often feel frustration and injustice. It is a dangerous feeling for a capable but disabled Maker; to feel such a frustration; to feel like one is not in control of one’s destiny. So I avoid it for now, because worrying about things I cannot change is a waste of energy.

I wish so many more people would think likewise. All that saved energy could then be put to good use. Like making stuff ;)

BTW, 3D is something that I've been interested in for years but living my spouse in our small apartment (a choice we made decades ago) makes it very difficult to say the least.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 1 points 3 minutes ago

First off, thank you for your kindness in conversation. I do not have the most polished of conversational skills. I tend to get into far too much detail without conveying my actual train of thought if I quote or structure my words. I could do far better, if I wrote in draft and then run a few revisions of refinement, but such effort is then a much larger investment of time for the endorphins of casual social engagement. Few people follow my abstract streaming thoughts as I casually write them; often taking them out of context. Each one is really a response to something you wrote or a theme of the conversation from some abstracted perspective; illustrative of my perspective thoughts and values, and the layers of engagement in my mind. I realize few people understand my abstracted perspective or link the intended perceptual threads. Often those that continue do so out of kindness and to flex their conversational and social skills to overcome a challenge. So to that I say in either regard, thanks for the conversation.

Now you seem to have this theme or frame of thought about younger people's opportunities and motivations. I find this perspective personally odd in abstraction. First I think in terms of statistics and sociology. It is a common perspective to say about youth that comes with age as seen in a thread running throughout all of recorded history. So for me I am skeptical of the concept from the outset as a fallacy common to age.

Second (third, fourth, fifth...), back before the crash that disabled me, I had confronted myself about my weight and bad health many years before. I had asked myself what good was it to be able to do so much to modify a car when I failed to modify myself. I started riding a bicycle everywhere as a result and this quickly lead to working in a bike shop and eventually becoming the wholesale Buyer for a chain of bike shops. I even got into amateur criterium racing on many weekends.

As part of the job of a professional Buyer in very high end shops, I had to analyze a lot of statistics to look for patterns and make educated predictions leveraging a lot of money while carrying considerable risk to the business. Much of that experience is about overcoming biases in a similar vain to this perspective on youth. A common example I often mention is just cycling socks. It is not the greatest parallel to this situation, but habits... Most people or owners will buy several colors or patterns of socks to stock in inventory. The least observant of these will buy the same number of socks in each size. This type of person will run the business into bankruptcy within just a few years. The next type of person will buy a staggered number of units for each size realizing they will never sell some sizes as much as others. The rarest type of person will develop statistics across a season by buying a limited variety of conservative colors and patterns and supporting reordering directly to ensure never to run out of stock. In so doing the person will learn that it is perfectly reasonable to place an order like 20-xs | 10-s | 50-m | 300-l | 25-xl. Then they will buy most socks like this in much larger orders that can be negotiated for better margin and terms for credit. The second business might last a decade at most. I can manage such a business sustainably at break even numbers or better because I treat the entire store like this kind of researched problem and I am not afraid to follow the numbers even when they clash with my intuitive logic or conservative anxiety.

As part of being a Buyer, I managed any overburden inventory, so stuff like edge case sizes that did not sell in the store, or things the mechanics ordered incorrectly to work on a customer's bike that I failed to catch in the background were overburden to offload elsewhere. I used eBay a lot for that part of the business. On eBay, I learned to generate money on demand using no reserve auctions. The trick is to think in terms of the average person and their life patterns. Most people live paycheck to paycheck, or at least their spending habits largely reflect their paycheck cycle. Most people also pay rent or a mortgage and the majority of these are due at the first of the month. In this cycle, the largest number of people that have excess money to spend is always on the weekend that follows the 15th of the month. On eBay, the highest volume of traffic for people that are willing to bid on an auction is on Sunday evenings at around 9pm for the West coast of the United States as this will be midnight on the East coast of the US. I always ended my listings at this time and only on months where there is not a holiday or major event. Like, February is terrible. Between the Superbowl and Valentine's day no one is making some major purchase, and the short month means money is much tighter. When I did eBay, I consistently set the high mark for similar items sold in eBay's history by 10-20% more than others within a few years time. I had many other tricks too that were unrelated to these demographics.

One of the challenges in bike shops is understanding how large the entry level market really is compared to everything else. I sold very high end race stuff. I even supported the professional ShoAir team for a year out of my back office. The entry level market was over 80% of my total sales volume. It was only around 20% of my actual retail floor space, but it dominated my storage. People love to come into a shop and see the high end stuff, but they want to buy something cheap.

In all of this experience, I see an abstract spectrum of people and patterns that are very numerous in demographic motivations. There are certain areas where these groups meet and overlap but their motivations are extremely varied.

It was funny to me that each shop owner I worked for obsessed about social media presence when I first started working for them. I told them all, "test your assumptions empirically." They all assumed that the whole world was present on social media in places like Facebook. The first shop spent a bunch of money on ads, insisting that it drove traffic into the shop. I told them to simply pick any item they feel is extremely popular and in very high demand. Then try to give it away for free on a social media platform. Tell people it is free and there are no strings attached and see how long it takes for someone to come into the store and ask for the item based upon social media alone. The fastest I saw was 3 weeks, and I believe the owner actually told the person to specifically come pick up the item out of shear embarrassment. I never had to upkeep social media presence after those experiments.

My point in all of these examples is that, the presence of people in any given space or slice of life is an extremely small fraction of demographics and motivations. If I based buying on what I like myself or what I perceive on the sales floor as customers make purchases and a few interact with me, I would be incorrect by a long shot. I'm pretty good at spotting styles trends and innovations in the upcoming market, but even this is a somewhat ungrounded bias. You see, in this experience I learned the numbers do not lie but my perception and bias does. When you say 'kids these days...' my brain sends up a red flag against this experience as likely an ungrounded perceptive bias.

Like when I was on reddit, I was very concerned about information bubbles and if I was being manipulated. It was much the same on YouTube; I wondered how I was being influenced in unexpected ways when I could not explain why exactly I went down some rabbit hole project and made purchases in retrospective reflection. I don't do such things now after exclusively using Lemmy, so speculatively there may have been some merit, but that is probably more demographic bias. However, Lemmy shows a lot of demographic bias too. We are self selecting our information bubbles even without some masterful or nefarious steering.

Ultimately, I think we are likely some outlier niche demographic; aged and disconnected from who we were as our younger former selves on the oath to now. Forces beyond our awareness self select and separate us from those like us at an earlier stage. Over the last 500 years, as you put it, we have made immense progress. That only happens through incremental improvement across each generation. Therefore I must counter that you and I must still exist in a new and improved revision as time marches on and we hang our hats on the racks of our time.

For 3d printing, a Prusa in not so bad for being reasonably quiet, especially if it is slowed down (if you do not mind longer print times). A small enclosure also helps a lot. The following photo is just a couple of $10 IKEA Lack tables hacked together with a bathroom shower curtain on three sides and a sheet of 2mm plexiglass (that still needs a latch and handle designed). That is enough to print advanced materials and there is no smell in the room. (Forgive my current project clutter around it.) The printer sits on a 50mm hard foam rubber knee/kneeling pad which is the best way to silence audible resonance coming from the table or enclosure.

If you want to get into CAD design, the topological naming issue is all about the way every object builds math references in different spaces relative to each other in a tree. When Sketches are used, each sketch starts in a new topological space making them independent from the object. The faces of the 3d object are all in a single namespace tree. If a change is made to somewhere up-tree in the history of the object, it breaks references that are down tree. The biggest reason for the complexity and why it matters is because all computers must truncate π. Avoid creating references that compound upon π. It is that easy