this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
67 points (67.0% liked)

Memes

51267 readers
2276 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

They wanted to prevent them from joining because they couldn't bully them if they managed to join. I think that answers for both.

Now your turn to answer my original question, please.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

So the underlying, material reason for why you think Russia invaded Ukraine, was because they wanted to "bully" Ukraine? And that NATO is just an international "anti-bullying" alliance? No, lmao.

NATO is an alliance of imperialist nations. They band together, agreeing to each exploit their own corner. The biggest players are the US Empire, as well as the former hegemons Germany, the UK, and France. The other NATO members play along so that they can ride along on this system of monopoly capitalism expropriating vast wealth from South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, and more. If countries go against NATO desires economically, they get bombed, like Yugoslavia, Libya, etc.

NATO promised Gorbachev that they wouldn't expand eastward, decades ago. This is because originally, NATO was an anti-communist alliance. However, with the fall of the USSR, the west needed a new enemy, so they stuck with Russia even after Russia tried to join NATO. With NATO building up in Ukraine, following the Euromaidan coup of 2014 cementing the Ukrainian Nationalists as the leaders of Ukraine, and their relentless shelling of the donbass region, Russia invaded as it didn't feel like it wanted a belligerent neighbor, and decided to take pre-emptive action.

The entire invasion never would have happened without NATO.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

You've quite rudely ignored my question even though I promptly answered yours.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Because it doesn't matter. Russia hasn't attacked NATO countries, sure. Unless you're saying western imperialism is a good thing, and that it was correct to encircle and reject Russia's attempts to join NATO. You're JAQing off.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz -1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

It doesn't matter that Russia hasn't attacked NATO countries but it has and currently is attacking non-NATO countries? Interesting take

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

It only makes sense if your conclusion is that, genetically, Russians just love attacking people. If you ignore the real, materialist explanation for events and substitute it with a deliberate refusal to acknowledge the actual causes, then you're only left with racism. Earlier, your only reason was "bullying," so if you really do believe it's a genetic thing then that checks out.

I'd love you to prove me wrong about that, though.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 0 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

I was just saying that none of the members have got attacked by Russia and quite a few of the non-members have. Might be an indication of something. Not sure where you got genetics from tbh.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Nah, you know exactly what you're doing.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't know how you got from countries and military alliances into genetic traits to attack other countries. Pretty big leap imo.

I've heard some .ml people call NATO a virus but I didn't think it was literal

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

It's pretty simple, I explained how and why Russia invaded Ukraine, and NATO's role. You never responded to that, and instead said Russia invaded Ukraine because it can only "bully" non-NATO countries. There's no materialism in your explanation, no underlying economic reasoning, just pure "Russia invaded Ukraine because Russians are evil" nonsense.

You've also been vaguely suggesting that western imperialism is a good thing, so that chauvanism tracks. Russia in your eyes is a "bullying country" and NATO in your eyes is an "anti-bully alliance," which holds no actual water.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 0 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I was just saying that NATO countries haven't been attacked by Russia whereas non-NATO countries have, so it might be that the membership has maybe something to do with it.

I thought it was a simple point but you've since brought up genetics and good and evil into it, which honestly surprises me since I don't know where you got any of that

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

It has something to do with the calculus behind the final decision, but not why it happened in the first place. You're free to reread my comments and JAQ off.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz -2 points 13 hours ago

I'm not sure what the math is behind it but if it works it works ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯