372
When lunatics start talking about expelling all Israelis 'Back to Europe' instead of integrating them in a one-state solution
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
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Yes, the Russian government has made extensive efforts to displace Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars in the occupied territories in favor of Russian residents.
So you're in favor of deporting all immigrants in America? That seems non-intuitive.
I'm sorry, are we deporting Palestinian immigrants as well? Yes, based on ethnic origin. Have you not thought out your own position?
Which most immigrants to Israel aren't doing, as Israel's internationally recognized territory is overwhelmingly populated by Jewish Israelis and wherein Palestinian natives haven't lived, largely, for generations.
Forcibly deporting people from a region for their ethnicity is literally fucking ethnic cleansing. Just because you think it's 'good' ethnic cleansing, being in response to 'bad' ethnic cleansing, doesn't make it not fucking ethnic cleansing.
"Oh, it's only a SUBGROUP I want to ethnically cleanse! The GOOD ONES can stay!"
Christ. I guess Israel didn't engage in ethnic cleansing either, since it let some 'good Arabs' stay.
Okay, so regarding your first point, I still don't understand why you would think I would be against relocating those Russian residents? I'm not a tankie lol
I'm in favor of deporting people that are displacing other people from their homes. Do you really want to try and make the sweeping generalization that all modern immigrants in America are displacing people from their homes? Lmfao.
How many times do I need to repeat myself that I am referring to a specific subgroup that is displacing people from their homes? The ONLY reason ethnicity comes into it (for the sake of my argument anyway, I understand there are nazis out there that are using this to dogwhistle) is because the state is basing it on ethnicity. If they were actively bringing in Palestinians to displace Palestinians, then yes, we would be relocating those immigrants as well. Of course, that's not happening, and it makes no sense to even say it.
My understanding is that the Israeli government is, or was, actively colonizing parts of Palestine. Are you saying that isn't true? Or are you continuing to DEFEND A GROUP OF PEOPLE I'M NOT REFERRING TO?
Yeah, man, that would be ethnic cleansing. Good thing I said there is a subgroup of people!
Oh... you're taking problem with that. Because it's ethnic cleansing to relocate a subgroup of people, that might happen to be of the same ethnicity, based on their specific actions. For sure, man.
To compare the relocation of colonizers to the active, systemic displacement, removal, and eradication of a group of people based on their ethnicity?
You are a bad joke.
... because people are generally in agreement that mass expulsions of civilians based on ethnicity is difficult to justify morally and nearly impossible to execute humanely?
I'm sorry, you're making the sweeping generalization that all modern immigrants to Israel are displacing people from their homes. What's the difference here, exactly?
You specified that the people you were counting as colonizers were recent, adult immigrants to Israel from Europe.
The people it's colonizing Palestine with are largely native-born Israelis, not immigrants to Israel.
Why are you advocating for deporting immigrants to Israel, from Israel, for the crime of other Israelis settling on Palestinian land?
Alright, let me quote you:
But it's not based on ethnicity, is it? It's based on their status as a colonizer.
You're right, I did make that sweeping generalization. Good thing I walked it back when presented with evidence and clarified a more specific position. Almost like I'm open to learning when I'm not being condescended to by some keyboard warrior.
Okay, so based on what you're telling me now, I'll update my opinion again. Wow, I wish you could have presented this information from the beginning instead of being a jerk that nitpicked points to argue with (and did a poor job of it btw).
So is it fair, then, to call for the relocation of Israeli colonizers living in Palestine to return to Israel? I think maybe we're finally getting to somewhere where we can agree 😎
What's the point of that quote? Is it because I reference birthright and therefore the people I'm referring to are ethnically Jewish? And therefore I am calling for the relocation of people based on their ethnicity? Or am I clearly calling for the relocation of colonizers, of which I had misunderstandings of where those colonizers are coming from? Hm 🤔
But as mentioned, as your argument is based around deporting immigrants to Israel back to Europe on account of them being European immigrants to Israel, it absolutely is based on ethnicity.
When did you walk that position back? You simply kept speaking of immigrants as 'colonizers' without walking back any statements before that quoted one.
I'm sorry that I addressed your argument as your presented it, instead of using my prophetic powers to see into the future where you'd change your argument, and addressing that instead?
More fair, I would say, but more realistically I would point to the only real solution as the total cessation of Israeli government control over illegal settlements to Palestinian authorities. The ball is then in the court of the Palestinians of how they want to treat the settlements - most likely, the simple non-recognition of the legitimacy of the property ownership (and eviction if they refused to vacate property they did not legally own) would be enough to send most of them packing back to Israel. For those who stayed anyway, attempting to rent and work in the region despite the apartheid settlement being dismantled, I would argue that deportation becomes a much more fraught subject, though considering the lack of legal recognition of their entry into Palestinian territory and the likely knowledge of the unlawful nature of the settlements, less severe than ethnic cleansing usually is.
Bruh, you spent most of this comment chain defending the expulsion of 'colonizers' on this ground without reference to illegal settlements, and, within the context of the first few comments, quite clearly in regard to Israel as a whole, not just specific illegal settlements.
HOLY FUCK ARE YOU SERIOUS? IT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED SINCE MY SECOND COMMENT (REALLY MY FIRST COMMENT IF YOU WEREN'T BEING BONEHEADED) THAT MY POSITION IS NOT THE SAME AS THE POSITION IN THE MEME.
🙄 oh okay so we are just lying now okay. Right, I NEVER walked back my sweeping generalization and I NEVER specified further. For sure!
Right, it doesn't take the power of foresight to recognize that someone saying "idk", followed by a statement of position followed by a ", no?" is clearly a person asking for someone to explain what is wrong with their position. It ALSO doesn't take the power of foresight to recognize that in my next comment, my argument was updated, and that I was clearly open to new information as it was presented. Maybe you should get a grip on your ability to perceive things that are plainly in front of you.
But I've also been quite transparent about my ignorance and you've just been treating me as a racist instead of recognizing how reasonable I was being when presented with information and my willingness to update my position? Like you're just arguing in bad faith under the assumption I am arguing in bad faith even though it's pretty obvious I'm not.