this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2025
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[–] plyth@feddit.org 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Which democracies do you have in mind? For many it could be argued that they are American vassals. That doesn't leave too much freedom for their populations who thus must be indoctrinated even more.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

That claim is just moronic, maybe you are just using words you don't really know what mean. Warsaw pact countries were Soviet vassals, where Russia intervened militarily if they didn't behave or the people demanded democracy.
There has been no American military intervention to make democratic allies behave.
Any NATO country is free to leave, and all western countries have democratically elected governments, and better democracy than USA.
IDK what kind of delusion you are under, but to claim free democracies are vassals of USA is delusional.
Currently many allies are actually politically pulling away from USA now, because USA is unreliable.
More than half of a century of Pax Americana is at an end, but allies that used to allow USA to be the leader is not the same as being a vassal, for instance several European countries did not agree with USA on Iraq, and did not participate in the invasion. Comparing voluntary cooperation by democratically elected governments with being a vassal is so ignorant I'm kind of at a loss for words.
USA has exited many international organizations and agreements, while these are continued by former allied participants, and many former allies are working around USA now to achieve their political goals because USA does not share those goals anymore.

It's particularly funny you make this claim now, after it's proven that USA trying to pressure allies into submission clearly isn't working, and has the direct opposite effect.
And finally in other countries there is nothing at all like the American propaganda about being free as by far the most important goal. On the contrary it's much more about general quality of a society for all, which despite freedom not being the main goal, has resulted in greater freedom than USA has, because freedom is recognized as a human right that must be considered in how we regulate!

[–] Auli@lemmy.ca 0 points 48 minutes ago

The West is a vassal state of America we have relied on America for our technology and protection.

[–] plyth@feddit.org -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

There has been no American military intervention to make democratic allies

Because it was not necessary. Look at South America for what would have happened if people would end the dependency.

It’s particularly funny you make this claim now, after it’s proven that USA trying to pressure allies into submission clearly isn’t working

Tariffs, 4% military spending. What does not work?

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

You think tariffs are working? Lol ok troll.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 20 hours ago

They are opening up three banana factories in Michigan.

[–] plyth@feddit.org -1 points 1 day ago

Especially if they don't work, how could the EU accept them but by pressure?

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Look at South America

Bullshit, Venezuela is a major pain in the ass for USA, and on top of that has lots of oil, and yet USA hasn't invaded them. Despite being ruled by an insane dictator with no public support, but under the guise of Socialism.

Trump wanted 2% for NATO, but now most of Europe has decided to go to 3.5% - 5.0% because total independence from USA is the goal now.
European politicians are even saying it out loud, there is no secret about it.
Also USA is selling FEWER weapons to Europe, and American weapons stock values are declining while Europe is skyrocketing. The only thing keeping US weapons exports from plummeting totally, is that Europe is buying weapons from USA for Ukraine. While we are building our own production.

You are delusional if you think anything you state shows that allied democracies are vassals of USA. As I stated before, we had lots of agreements on how to do things, because we were friends and allies, that does not make us vassals. Also there were clear benefits to both sides and smaller allies too under the old agreements. That's not how it works with vassal states.
Now USA is pulling away from these agreements, and there is cost from that on both sides.
But still that doesn't make anyone a practical vassal of USA.

You show NOTHING factual to support your claim, because you have no idea what you are talking about.
You are only parroting old communist and current Russian propaganda, that even former communist states don't believe anymore.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There is more to South America than Venezuela, and Venezuela isn't over. There was an attempt at the last election and there were war ships last week.

Trump wanted 2% for NATO, but now most of Europe has decided to go to 3.5% - 5.0% because total independence from USA is the goal.

USA got what they wanted and you feel good about it. What more to ask for?

All because Trump is controlled by Putin. That's propaganda. USA provides the supreme commander for Nato and nobody is questioning that command structure for the war against Russia.

Most likely the EU will not push their social network law so US companies will keep deciding what Europeans read.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Some of those things are true, or at least partially true.
But NOTHING you state shows allied democracies are vassals of USA, and Europe is already working on a defense that doesn't depend on NATO.
Regarding USA being the commander for NATO forces, what other command structure would you suggest?
But apart from that USA is unlikely to be allowed that position for much longer. Trump wanted to destroy NATO and he basically has. But all other NATO countries than USA are still allies, and there are works in progress of EU/Canada and many eastern countries like Japan and Australia building a new alliance.
USA has chosen to go it alone, but everyone else is working on continuing international cooperation to everyone's benefit. On trade, on climate and on defense.
Clear proof that USA never had vassal states, but actually free allies.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

what other command structure would you suggest?

An American commander doesn't make sense if Trump works for Russia. I don't believe that so everything can continue as is.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Oh so you were just throwing garbage at the wall. It's not like you have any alternative. 👎

[–] plyth@feddit.org 0 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

No, you must have missed my argument. The EU countries have increased the spending as the US demanded. To convince the population the US threatens to cut off their protection.

That threat cannot be real or the military would implement a second command structure because it would be too late to negotiate with Türkiye, Canada and Great Britain about who should lead when Russia is attacking and the US doesn't participate.

It would also be highly important to buy some equipment to fill dangerous strategic gaps but we buy the regular stuff.

So the US is still the backbone of our defence and we haven't split. So if we are vassals we don't have proof that we could split.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Still as I mentioned, just because allies supported the PAX Americana doesn't mean they are vassal states, and you have failed completely in supporting that claim.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 0 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

My claim is that the population of the vassal states is even more indoctrinated.

You say countries were free to join Iraq war. That war was illegal. Ignoring that then doesn't make sense if it is not ignored now in Ukraine unless there was some pressure.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes the countries with actual free press and better basic education are more indoctrinated than a country absolutely infested by propaganda and misinformation.
There is no functional democracy that allow a cesspool of false propaganda like FOX news.
Is there any point where you stop making absolutely nonsensical claims?

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

You believe in free press while it is as owned as the American press. If you think that Americans are not free, but you are, while you see the prison of the Americans, wouldn't you be more indoctrinated if you don't check your freedom twice?

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

joyous imaginative freedom.

This was what I quoted from the article.
And yes Americans are indoctrinated to believe USA is the most free country in the world.
When every stat shows that most other democracies have more freedom in almost every way than Americans have, and are way better democracies.

I'm tired of your bullshit, we are in no prison of the Americans. Whatever the fuck gave you that idea? For instance France left NATO in 1966, USA never forced any allied democracy to change their government or oppress the opinion of the people, or tried to force any country into a military alliance with USA. Things that would all be common for Soviet union to do to Warsaw pact countries, that were actual vassals of the Soviet Union.
Yes Trump pressured other NATO countries to increase military budgets, but it was always an option to just leave. That is the opposite of being a vassal, so now you try to change the subject or the wording to something else, because you know your claim of allied democracies being vassals to USA is bullshit.

There are many things we can criticize USA for, but forcing allied democracies to be vassals of USA is not one of them.
On the contrary, USA is leaving the international cooperation that has worked so well for everybody since WW2. Which is really sad.
Europe and others will be more free, but despite that, losing USA as a friend and ally is a huge loss to the free world, which sadly doesn't include USA anymore, or at least not at the moment under Trump and JD Vance, who have zero respect for the law, democracy and human rights.

PS: Opposite to allies being in a prison of the Americans, the Americans are by far the most imprisoned nation in the world. Not even dictatorships or other authoritarian countries beat USA on imprisonment of their own population.
This fact alone is a clear sign of USA not being a very free country, or a very good democracy.
So with Americans having less freedom than most, goes indisputably for the literal meaning of the word.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 16 hours ago

How about Greece or the conquest of Cyprus?