this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2025
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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 117 points 2 days ago (15 children)

I like AOC a lot. She started as any other member of The Squad but has actually learned how politics work and is doing a, mostly, spectacular job of balancing ideology, the will of her constituents, and generation of political capital. In so many ways, she is what Sanders would have been if he got his head out of his ass twenty some odd years ago.

If she runs for POTUS in 2028, she is a god damned idiot. I am still skeptical if this country will EVER elect a woman for POTUS. But she is also still quite young but has almost an entire Hilary Clinton worth of chud-hate and attacks. Whereas Senate makes perfect sense for her.

That said? I could see a world where AOC could... once again be the anti-Bernie. Run for POTUS in the primary. Energize basically the entire youth of the nation. Then lose and immediately endorse the winner while leveraging her influence to get important action items on the ticket. But... I want AOC as a leader and not just as the bait and switch.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 111 points 2 days ago (16 children)

I am still skeptical if this country will EVER elect a woman for POTUS.

I'm not sure that's a reasonable takeaway from the last two times a woman was a major party nominee.

Hillary Clinton was not especially charismatic, which is arguably what wins general elections in most cases. She was also unpopular with progressive Democrats, and widely seen as having secured the nomination unfairly when Sanders might have been both more popular with the party and a stronger general election candidate.

Kamala Harris was severely handicapped by the combination of being nominated without a primary process, starting her campaign very late, and positioning herself as a continuation of Biden at a time when Biden's popularity was very low.

If AOC were to win the nomination, she would be in a much stronger position for the general election than either Clinton or Harris.

[–] mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Yeah, thank you. The problem with Hillary and Kamala is nobody liked them. Now sure you can argue " maybe people didn't like them because they're women and they have a bias against women". I never heard anybody online saying " wow! I would sure love to have Kamala as president but I just don't think other people will vote for her". I see lots of people saying that about AOC. At some point you have to look around and be like oh wait...lots of people are saying they'd vote for her.

[–] frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

AOC has a message that people want is a key thing. Harris kept it too safe to really sway anyone that wasn’t already sold, unfortunately. That’s not to say Harris didn’t have a published policy list, but it wasn’t what people were seeing or hearing. If Harris came out as a progressive, which I believe she was, then I think she would have swayed middle America.

[–] Runaway@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The problem I think is that harris said she was going to continue Bidens economic policy when a lot of people really are feeling like the economic policy from both sides is benefiting only the wealthy. If any policy helps the little guy then it is such a minor help that it goes unrecognized.

Inequality skyrocketing, wages stagnating, and then you say you want to continue the policy? Not great campaign. Trump lost in 2020 and won in 2016 and 2024 because he was anti status quo. Most people don't really care about "all the other" stuff and are too stupid to realize anything outside of "do I want change RIGHT NOW?" and then vote yes or no based on that

[–] frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

It was very poor messaging for sure. That’s not to say Biden didn’t have a decent economic policy plan, in theory, but it never got off the ground due to the grid-lock in the Senate.

[–] Runaway@lemmy.zip 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I mean it would be better than now but I really don't think the plan was good enough to change the outcome. He would have had to be far more radical than he is

[–] frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

Oh for sure on all counts; Biden really should not have been the front runner in 2020. Hell, just planning on running for one term would have made a world of difference. Still I’m hopeful for AOC 2028, I think it could be in the cards if the DNC doesn’t pull a Bernie on her.

[–] Runaway@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago

They def will tho. The corpo overlords will demand it

[–] Gigasser@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

We also have to ask ourselves why no one liked them. Some of it can be attributed to sexism and or racism, yes. But I think we can attribute a lot of the unpopularity of those candidates to their lack of charisma, weak seeming positions and advocacy on progressive points of interest (such as Gaza, the Palestinians, border climate change, etc), and what seemed like stupid meddling and sabotage by the consultant class.

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[–] Runaway@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago

Agreed. When people say they lost cuz America is too racist or sexist I think they miss out what bad candidates we had each time. Either bad in who they are, how they ran the campaign, or factors outside them that killed the campaign, or all 3

[–] FinnFooted@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

Biden himself ran for president and won on the third shot. But, since two woman ran for president and lost, thats a sign that no woman can get elected.

Its not that women can't win. Its that centrist dems than run on the status quo when the Democratic party is polling abysmally can't win.

[–] Elextra@literature.cafe 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Honestly, I think unfortunately gender/sex does play a factor, in addition to race. If this administration has taught us anything, is that there is that much hate within our country.

Also think of cultures where historically their culture doesnt value women. Even if there are people who immigrated here, some still may never vote for a woman. Some will decline because they are racist. While we are all Americans, we are deeply deeply divided ATM :(

This is without even factoring the candidates political platform in yet.

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (7 children)

I like when people claim racism was a major factor in Harris's loss, given that Obama was elected in 2008 with a larger piece of the popular vote than any President since.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It was one of many factors. Obama winning didn't prove that racism didn't exist. He won despite the racism. Harris had racism, sexism, a lack of a primary process, the lack of experience as an executive, and so on against her.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 days ago

In a lot of ways, Obama winning kind of broke the country.

He was a Democrat that people genuinely loved because of how charismatic he was (which was REAL nice after Dubyah...). Or, as a certain Former President put it, he was a Clean And Articulate Gentleman.

The problem being, his very existence set off all the chuds. It completely destroyed their minds that a black man could possibly be President. And it is a big chunk of what set for the "never again" mindset we are seeing.

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Obama winning didn’t prove that racism didn’t exist.

But it did prove that racism does not have enough of an impact to move the needle in any substantial way—it failed so hard to move the needle that, again, literally no candidate since has even matched, let alone topped, his popular vote %.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

But it did prove that racism does not have enough of an impact to move the needle in any substantial way

Are you sure? Maybe Obama would have swept all 50 states if it hadn't been for the racism. Maybe the only reason it was at all close was the racism.

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[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 38 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Worth noting as I almost missed it myself from not RTFA, but: AOC is "gearing up for a big campaign for a bigger office in 2028 -- they're just not sure which."

I align with your view that I really thought AOC would be better to primary against Schumer. Not only is it arguably more attainable, it addresses our problem with stagnant Congressional AIPAC-representing leadership.

That said, I part ways in the belief that a female president is not capable of being elected for a couple of reasons which I'll try to lay out point-by-point:

  • There is no actual evidence that a gender-bias led to Kamala's loss that I have seen.
  • The Venn Diagram join of sexist misogynistic bigots and Never-Dem deep-red maga is a circle; in other words, we were never going to get these people no matter if we put Trump fused with Reagan in and mirrored their platform word-for-word.
  • Willingness to vote for a female President has been historically tracked:

Public willingness to vote for a woman

In 1937, the first time the public was asked by Gallup about its willingness to vote for a female president, the question included the caveat “if she were qualified in every other respect.” Gallup removed that phrase, with its implications, and tried a new version in 1945, asking, “If the party whose candidate you most often support nominated a woman for President of the United States, would you vote for her if she seemed best qualified for the job?” The results remained the same, with about one-third saying yes.

In 1948, the country was split on a new version of this question, which identified the woman candidate as qualified, but not “best” qualified. The final wording became settled in 1958 and has been asked repeatedly since. Large gains were made over the 1970's and the proportion answering yes has continued to rise, reaching 95% in the most recent poll.

Americans may say they are willing to vote for a woman, but when asked to assess the willingness of others, people have not been as optimistic about women’s chances of winning the presidency. In 1984, when NBC asked likely voters if they were ready to elect a woman president, only 17% said yes. Substantial shares of the population have remained skeptical, though the most recent poll found the lowest proportion who believe the country is not yet ready.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think there were many contributing factors to Kamala's loss, but I I think this is pretty low if non-existent among them, and it risks gatekeeping qualified, charismatic candidates like AOC out of fear of past milquetoast candidates that were unpopular from the outset and deeply lacking in charisma.

[–] NABDad@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

I'm wondering if Gallup has tried asking if people would vote for a woman if she made it clear she intended to help the citizens of the country and not the oligarchs who own everything.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think part of the problem for the Hillary and Harris campaigns were that they were running for the status quo at a time when that wasn't working. Both Obama and Biden ran on change and, while it wasn't the amount of change people wanted, it was at least a recognition that things need to shift.

[–] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

This is the same take I have. Both Hillary and Kamala are slimy neolibs, exactly the kind of people that nobody trusts. Gavin Newsom is the same and would be a catastrophic nomination. AOC would have a real shot, especially if she sticks to her grass-roots techniques and reaches people face-to-face. No debates, no mass media, just homegrown down-to-earth human energy.

But what am I talking about, there won’t be any more elections. The fascists have taken over and dismantled everything from the federal to local levels. The cancer, having been fed instead of removed, is now terminal.

[–] TomMasz@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

Replacing Schumer would be a big step forward,

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I am still skeptical if this country will EVER elect a woman for POTUS.

USA has no problem electing a woman (see below). But I am still skeptical the dems will EVER nominate a non-fascist for president.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/only-michelle-obama-bests-trump-alternative-biden-2024

[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Funny that you say she’d be an idiot for running in 2028, then present a great case for why she might run in 2028…

You’re right, though, that Senate would be the right move. But that has its own disadvantages. If Schumer doesn’t retire, it would be very tough to beat him.

Being a losing presidential candidate could raise your profile. I’m not sure the same applies to a senate candidate.

Also, I would say the hate for AOC is much different than the hate for Hillary. There were plenty of liberals that hated Hillary (🙋‍♂️). I don’t think this applies as much to AOC. The hate is coming exclusively from the right.

[–] chilicheeselies@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (4 children)

She could easily beat schumer. I never met another nyer who likes that guy. Largely he wins now because nobody (or nobodies) primary him, and the alternative is a republican which just is not an option right now.

[–] frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Schumer has seniority in the Senate, which is why many have not tried to primary him.

Seniority is a big deal in the Senate in terms of committee assignments. Just because AOC could replace Schumer’s seat, it does not mean that she will gain the current amount of power that he has for a long time. Now it may well be worth replacing his seat just so the current spokesperson for Dems in the Senate changes, but it’s not going to be AOC for a while.

An alternative is for her to grow to become the Speaker of the House, which she could do by continuing to stay in her current role over the next several decades.

Otherwise, she may look at a run for Governor, although then that is much less federally focused.

She could run for President or take on the role for VP. If she were to be VP, I think it would almost guarantee she would be able to win the Presidency at some point. Although, if she joined an administration that caused a lot of baggage, like Harris received from being VP to Biden, then it would make that route more difficult.

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[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

AOC would make an amazing VP pick. Could bring a lot of energy to a campaign and get youth/working class support. Then transition that into a presidential campaign later on.

[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

And who would you pick for president? Even VP AOC couldn’t make me pick Newsom

[–] chunes@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago
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[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

the vice presidency isn't worth a bucket of warm piss

- John Nance garner, former vice president to FDR (before truman)

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Ehhhhhh

People have a very weird idea of what the veep actually is. In theory, it is the person waiting in the wings, learning from the POTUS, picking up the slack, and preparing to take command if needed. In practice? It is someone The Party saddled the POTUS with and is an active threat to their legitimacy and legacy. For the past few decades, the frigging First Lady seems to have more accomplishments than most VPOTUSes.

And considering that Biden became increasingly infirm over his term and there are good odds trump straight up dies in office (woo!), a lot of eyes will be on the VP. Which has good odds of triggering the palin effect of "oh dear god... what if the old white guy dies and we are left with THAT?!?!?"

With a POTUS who genuinely likes AOC and believes in her politics? Yeah, it would be spectacular. In the world and DNC we live in... expect the same "What the hell did she even do?" smear campaign Kamala has been getting since late 2023 (I wonder why).

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Couldn’t disagree with you more.

AOC for the win

be the anti-Bernie. Run for POTUS in the primary. Energize basically the entire youth of the nation. Then lose and immediately endorse the winner while leveraging her influence to get important action items on the ticket

How the fuck would doing EXACTLY what Bernie did make her "the anti-bernie"?

I get what you're saying but consider that her participation in the primary will energize progressives. If she really has the courage, immediately after the 2026 election she should announce that she's forming a progressive party. Get people like Tim Waltz, Katie Porter, and others on board. But my guess they lack the numbers to really pull numbers away from the correct Democratic party.

That said, I could see a Waltz/AOC ticket being hugely popular.

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