this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2025
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I'd argue you can 'see' the wall if you place something on it, like:
By that logic you can see air because there's clouds in the sky.
Son of a bitch, that's a good argument.
There's also blue in the sky. That's literally you seeing the air
Actually that's us seeing light.
Edit: specifically, the light wavelength that remains at passing through the atmosphere. We're but seeing the air still, we're just seeing the color that makes it through to us. Saying that's the air itself would be like saying you see the cities filtration system by looking at the clean water that comes from a faucet.
A better example of actually seeing air would be to freeze it, and seeing the literal frozen air.
Responding to your edit:
You've got it the wrong way around. What you see at sunset, the reds and yellows, that's the sunlight being filtered because those wavelengths make it through stronger. Your argument would hold there, if we do not count seeing filtered light as "seeing" the filtering material. (Although even that I'd question - if you hold a colored piece of glass against a light source so it's entirely backlit, would you say you're not seeing it?)
But the blue sky is not that. It is the air molecules being illuminated by light coming from somewhere else, and bouncing that light back into your eyes, with a bias towards blue wavelengths. If that does not count as "seeing" air, then you also can't actually "see" fog, it's the same mechanism.
Light bouncing off of air molecules, yes. That's how seeing things works
Do you see your own eyes? Like without a mirror
No. Why is that relevant?
I was extremely baked when I asked that but I think it was a question about how some light will reflect off your eye into your eye therefore you're seeing your own eyes.
I guess having floaters, or that weird effect of seeing your white blood cells in the capillaries on your retina would probably count haha
That's what seeing is. Light. You can't actually directly observe the atoms that make something up. You can see the light that is reflected/emitted from that object.
How about blind or very sight-impaired characters? Could they “see” the wall as they “see” everything, by touching/perceiving it? That’s as well as they can see anything.
Is seeing the same as visualizing? Because the cloud’s shapes and height clearly give you an idea where a mass of air with certain common characteristics is, where it starts, and where it ends.
It would be kind of neat that you would have to learn to see what can't be seen to destroy something like force wall, because that would mean the blind would actually be better casters.
Or just interpret it as line of sight.
I’d argue that RAW the wall is still invisible. You now just have the means to pinpoint it's location.
Nope
Technically it only refers to visible creatures. Objects doesnt have the adjective visible.
Unlikely, but a particularly bull headed person could read this as though detect magic could identify invisible objects.
I'm kinda surprised how vague many of the DnD rules are written.
Didn't they have a rules lawyer at hand when writing these?
That depends on interpretation of the sentence structure. It could mean "any visible [creatures and objects]" or "any [visible creatures] and objects".
I've specifically focused on means that don't require a spell slot to use. Left familiar as an exception because people like to have them anyway and it can be ritual cast.