this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2025
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If you are arguing over the meaning of a word, then you're missing the whole point. I've seen this whole argument play out 1000 times in the last several years, it goes nowhere.
Meaning and definition are objective conditions, but not in the way we are taught to think. Rather than "websters dictionary defines Nazi as..." you gotta understand that definitions and meaning are decided by power.
In these spaces, there is muddle headedness about many political topics, no doubt this is one. I've studied really good arguments about why its important to be accurate in our assessment of fascists, one of the best ones being that when a movement is misidentified as being fascist it creates confusion among regular people which aids fascists taking power. I think some of those effects/consequences are present in our society.
But are you fighting the right battle here? With these people?
I think your arguments are unconvincing and coming from a place of frustration. If you want to prove your point you have to actually prove it. And to do that you have to do more than say like "I paid attention in school." In case you haven't noticed, schools aren't doing too great, and don't exactly teach the unvarnished truth. It is a very politicized curriculum in a depoliticized environment where you start each day pledging allegiance to the same flag Trump admin fascists earnestly and tearfully wrap around their $5000 sharkskin shoulders
Words and facts have meaning. Reality isn’t some malleable thing you can twist for political advantage.
This kind of rhetoric, caring more about political “winning” than reality, is toxic to any political movement. Look at what happened to the right when they let these kinds of people into the majority. Lies are nearly exclusively the tools that they use to manipulate their base.
Once you’ve untethered yourself from reality and are living in a world of memes and spin, you can be convinced to support anything. Anyone who promotes this kind of pragmatic misinformation isn’t helping, it’s making the left more like MAGA.
I don’t need to prove that they’re not Nazi’s. Nobody actually thinks they are a 1930s political party from Germany. Everyone has just accepted that it’s better to get a rhetorical win than to address reality. They are wrong.
No, you misunderstand me. When we define things purely objectively, especially language, then we are not dealing with reality. The meaning of words is inherently political, it is about power. This is obvious.
10 years ago, "woke" was a strictly leftist term. But the meaning has changed because of politics and power, it at least has a double meaning now. The fact is, reality isn't purely objective, it is objective and subjective. Being overly objective is just as much an error as being overly subjective.
A relevant example is the history of Italy, which is unique compared to other European states. Italy was divided until the risorgimento period in the 1800s. Previously it was all cut up into feudal city states that each had separate local dialects. It is a perfect study in how language and meaning spreads via political power. What is considered the Italian language is actually the Florentine dialect, since Florence served as the political capital of Italy after the unification. Political movements throughout this period focused on reactionary education to spread their political agendas. Millions of illiterate Italians were taught to read, write and speak the Florentine dialect.
Why do Americans speak English instead of Cherokee, Sioux, Catawba or Navajo? Domination and perpetuation of class interests embodied by settler colonists.
Its well understood that history is written by the winners, but the same is true for dictionaries.
I actually agree with you a lot more than a lot of the people arguing with and down voting you. If you look further down in the thread, where someone says that political rhetoric is more important than accuracy, I disagree with them. I am very concerned with keeping our analysis as close to real conditions as possible. But confusing reality with pure, static, positivist objectivity is just another form of idealism.