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(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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Hey Hexbear, if you're dropping by, let me know when Russian and Chinese workers seize the means of production.
In the meantime I'm sitting here oppressed in Norway.
Not a commie, but didn't the Norwegian people nationalize the oil production, leasing it out to companies while keeping a huge share of the profit for the welfare of common Norwegians?
My understanding is that, in a sense, that is exactly what seizing the means of production is about.
Means: seized.
Snow: plowed.
Lute: fisked.
Hotel: Trivago.
Controlling the natural resources a country and leasing it out it private companies is pretty standard practice in most non corrupt countries. Norway probably differs in that they capture more of the economic rent in part due to a more efficient tax and a share of public ownership.
That sounds to me more like a merger of corporation and state.
Nope. The people making these policies laid the plans for nationalizing the natural resources of Norway while in German concentration camps, where they were sent precisely because they were socialists. They are the primary reason, along with the discovery of oil and gas, for Norway being one of the richest countries on earth per capita. That the extraction of natural resources is under democratic control and under a somewhat high taxation scheme is not evidence of a fascist state-corp merger, but something that should be the default in all countries around the world to combat imperialist capital interests (except that the taxes should be even higher).
That sounds cool. Can you give me a source?
Sure! There are multiple claims in my comments, but one can get the gist by reading about the first prime minister of Norway after World War II, Einar Gerhardsen. To back up this new claim I cite the same Wikipedia article linked above:
A better source might be SNL (which stands for the Great Norwegian Encyclopedia and is owned mostly by different Norwegian universities) though this source is in Norwegian only, but should be fine to auto-translate if needed.
The idea of public ownership over natural resources is something that has been a big part of Norwegian identity, and this idea is also manifested in other laws such as the Freedom to roam law, which essentially states that it is
Though I would argue much of this identity has been lost in the last 50 years, I am also proud of some of the accomplishments of Norwegian social democracy and think it shows that the idea that "class collaboration is betrayal of socialist values" is wrong. At the same time it is important to admit that there have been problematic parts throughout its development, such as the treatment of the Sámi people and other minorities and the illegal surveillance of suspected communist sympathizers, to name a few.
Thanks a ton!
Polling says that Norway is #7 happiest country on Earth. Finland is #1, Denmark is #2...I wonder where China is on that list OwO
Bruh, we have oppressed people in Norway. Did you forget that our own supreme court ruled that some of our wind mills at Fosen are in violation of UN law of civil and political rights (source in Norwegian). That was two years ago and they are still standing, which is especially bad due to the historical repression and attempts at ethnic cleansing of Sámi people in Norway, that was going on for a disturbingly long time. Now, as a quick caveat I will add that on a global scale we are doing pretty alright. However, that you are fortunate and well, for which I am glad, does not mean that the sentiment of the meme is wrong. Since the 70s much of the good systems we built have been demolished by laissez-faire politics and politicians, like your beloved "Jern-Erna", lowering corporate taxes and allowing for privatization of public services (our railway system, healthcare and so on). I also don't think many people from Hexbear are deluded enough to believe in imminent revolution in Russia nor conflating the Russian government with the Communist Party of China (though I might suspect you do), making your comment either worthless or in bad faith (we both know it is both). Either way, I support seizing the means of production and voted for my convictions today. Even though I believe I probably fundamentally disagree with you, I hope you did too. Leave the "all communists are tankie fascists" idea at home please. It only makes you look ignorant and a bad representative for our nice little country.
... You realize Norway is one of the examples we use of a successful socialist state right?
norway isn't socialist, but a social democracy where they move all the unethical labour somewhere else. it's miles better than neoliberalism, but it's still capitalist
... You do realize we hear most internet communists we come across argue that we'd be so much better if we were run like Russian or China?
Those guys are idiots.
Best solution for Norway is to continue exporting undesirable labor like they've been doing, until the oil runs out, out demand dries up. Not sure what you'll do then but you won't be alone anyway.
It's not best for everyone, by any means. But it's best for Norway.
Yeah best for everyone would be if we invaded Finland and put people in jail for bringing up history.
Damn, that's a crazy red scare into yellow peril combo.
Not hexbear but aren't you Norwegians an oppressive oil state? You guys were bombing brown people for fun a couple of years back. Isn't Stoltenburg one of your guys? He just admitted to intentionally provoking the Russian invasion.
Reads like a parody but there's a good chance it's not.
Well they're from Lemmygrad so that "good chance it's not" can instantly be elevated to "definitely not joking".
You what now?
Oh look! A commie!
Say hi when you meet our little black sparrow-sized drones. All you have to do to earn a visit is mention how we fucked over the Sami, we really don't like those things. Oh, and don't insult Jern-Erna if she gets back in power, she'll divebomb you and leave nothing but a crater. Say what you will about Støre, he's a soggy twig.