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this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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Facts not every unhoused person wants to be housed. We need to address those issues as well if we want to confront the issue.
But just letting people have housing if they want would already massively help so many people.
The argument that because not all of them want a house so we shouldn't do it, is literally just the perfect being the enemy of good.
Many of them "don't want to be housed" because of all the strings attached to having housing. When you simply give people their own warm bed with a roof they'll almost always use it.
Houses are only a small piece of the puzzle.
People are homeless for many different reasons. Mental health and drug addiction are two big ones. Then there are the handicapped, those that can't hold down a job. Those that lost everything they had. And even those that just want to be homeless.
People look at the homeless population though their own biases. Their framing is that people want a house.
We could try and give a house to every one of these people and they wouldn't all take it. Some would destroy it and return to being homeless, either maliciously or as.a byproduct of their mental illness.
We should house the ones we can, feed the ones we can, and treat the health of the ones we can. Those that want rehab should get it, but I don't think every drug addict out there wants to be cured. We should provide showers and clean clothes.
We need to remove the stigma from the homeless.
We need to make it easier for businesses to hire the homeless.
And we could do all that, and more. And we'd still have homeless. We will always have homeless. There is no holistic solution that will magically house everyone.
It's really easy for businesses to hire the homeless. They just don't want to. What we need to do is give them incentives to hire them.
Also, if we're going to house people we need to just do it. Just give them shelter period. No strings attached. At least for a while until other programs can get them on their feet. I've watched people try to navigate the system to get a real roof over their heads the "right way" and it feels like it's just set up for them to inevitably fail. They have to jump through hoops, sometimes in really dehumanizing ways, and can lose it all again far too easily. The half assed nonsense we've mostly got going now is just fodder for small minded people to point at and say "see, they don't even want help!"
Yea. Those that want it, give it to them. Making it contingent on being clean from drugs or whatever doesn't work.
There never will be a one size fits all trick to lifting someone out of being homeless. If someone wants to be lifted up, we should do whatever we can do help them.
I'm just saying that there will never be a complete solve to homelessness. But we can solve homelessness for those that WANT to not be homeless.
I don't think any realistic discussion about homelessness should be concerned with the minority of a minority of people who actively choose to be homeless. They're already happy enough as they are, or are simply too far removed from society that, as long as they're not causing actual problems, there IS no problem. Talking about people choosing to be homeless is almost a smoke screen to distract from actually talking about the problem.
The people who don't want houses aren't the issue. They can choose not to have one, fine. That's on them. Housing first has been very successful in certain European countries and cities. A safe place to live is the FIRST step to solving all of those issues, not the pot at the end of the life improvement rainbow.
Just getting people who DO want to offer the street dramatically improves mental health issues, substance abuse issues, lessens their strain on healthcare systems, lowers crime rate... it's the obvious first step.
I wouldn't want to be housed either, if it came with a laundry list of stipulations, requirements, and more or less complete destruction of autonomy. I doubt anyone would turn down a free, no-questions-asked place to call a home. Somewhere safe to rest and begin working on the issues naturally.
Housing first tends to more or less solve, or drastically reduce, homelessness and all the associated negative things - crime, substance abuse, medical issues, etc. Turns out it's easier to get all the other things sorted and get back to society when you have the bare minimum left.
Sure there will probably be a very small percentage of people who just... don't want to. They're actually happy doing their thing, and that's not really a problem. But I'd strongly doubt it's less than a tenth of a percent of the current homeless population.
Im not sure how large the number is only that in the decades I have volunteered with shelters that some exist.
Sure, some. And some people eat shit for fun, it's a minority of a minority, and I'd put good money on that
Like I said I can't say how big or small the number is. It isn't the majority as most unhoused people are not chronically unhoused.
Then what's the point of you saying some people don't want houses? You said earlier you think they should have them, but you bring up that some don't want them. Ok, we're not talking about them. What point are you making?
Also by definition it's 0% of the current homeless population who is unhappy being homeless.
I don't know if you misspoke or if I'm just misreading it. I really hope you're not making the "these people aren't changing their circumstances so they must by definition be Happy in them" argument. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask for clarification because that's a fuckin dumb argument lol
Because... getting housing often means losing the community support they get from other homeless. If you get a house, but lose your friends and support system and the people who (eg) go shopping for you, then how is that a win?
These people would happily be housed if it didn't mean yanking them away from their community.
So the solution is to house entire homeless communities together and at the same time.
Single room apartments with communal cooking, recreation and bathing areas seem like the most cost effective and amicable solution. You could even convert old prisons so they aren't dehumanizing.
Why would they lose their community? All their homeless friends also get free housing, probably in the same building or nearby. Their friends who did shopping and shit for them, there's probably more reason than they're homeless that they're helping out. And if you're referring to state or private institutions, there's no reason not to keep those resources available.
Further, the former homeless now has more opportunities to form even better communities, and start standing on their own. It's wins all the way around. Hell, it even ends up being CHEAPER for the average person, because crime tends to go down, medical expenses go down, etc.
That's not how housing works. You answer the housing lottery, get in the queue, and eventually you get a house if you're lucky. So when you look at a homeless community, it's random who gets a house when.
Look up the podcast "according to need". They talked with a bunch of homeless people and did a great analysis of the situation. It's only like 5 or 6 episodes.
Right. That's not how it works. Right now. There's no reason it can't work better. I could spitball ideas, but I'm not an expert, so anything I proposed would be full of holes. Off the top of my head, I could see initiatives to locate homeless communities, and building higher density dwellings somewhere central to them and the resources they'd need, with the intent to keep these communities as close as possible.
I'll listen to that podcast for sure.
Oh yes. It's the current approach that causes people to reject housing. I think those are some really good ideas for better options.
Is that really true? Answer that first.
Then, if so, answer this: why? That's an important question.
Do they just enjoy sleeping outside and being pissed on? Somehow I doubt it.