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Human rights are edgy now
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
674 points (83.5% liked)
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By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and not 'The Jews must be driven to the sea', right?
This was the interpretation I upvoted for, so I hope it's what was meant.
Oh sweet summer child.
They can have Germany.
Germany was sadly not the only country which mass killed and exiled Jews. Perhaps, you know, read up about it?
Doesnt matter
Lmao crying about Palestine having land taken from them they never had in the first place and then coming up with this is peak satire
Palestinians weren't living there for centuries before these European Jews came in? Oh right, I forgot, supposedly God is a divine real estate agent who promised these Europeans land in Palestine thousands of years in the future.
You mean like Jewa weren't living there for millenia before these Muslim came in?
What the fuck is that argument.
No they weren't. The Arab people lived there first. Proto-Jews moved there and left from there, they were nomadic, pulling ideas for their religion everywhere they went.
The Arab people continued to live there for 2 thousand more years until they were drove out by canaanites.
Many wars happen. Civil War 200 years after the Arabs were drove out established the site of Jerusalem as a Jewish kingdom. They write in thier books the land is promised to them. 3500 years of history erased.
Over the course of 1000 years. Roman's take the land by force and rebuild. Christians take the land by force and rebuild. Persians take the land and rebuild. Then the Christians take it again.
Meanwhile the expelled Arab people have been developing thier own beliefs and formed Islam.
Around 600CE they rose from the desert and peacefully took Jerusalem(by all recorded accounts from Jews and Christians). Where they rebuilt holy sites for all 3 religions.
Soon after the crusades happened and there is much more change in hands of the land.
No, no, the west is never at fault. Sure, Germany killed six millions Jews, but it's best that Britain divided up some foreign land and pushed the "problem" (that the anti-Semites in the west caused) onto other people while scolding them for not liking having their homes taken.
Jews settled there before the formation of Israel and the location was specifically favored by the Jews.
Yeah, Jews had lived there for a long time, then the zionist movement pushed for mass emigration to Palestine and that's where problems arose.
Jews drove out the Arab who settled the land 3500 years before.
They don't need to be driven away, but the borders of Israel should be dissolved and all housing fairly redistributed.
Moderates could and do live side by side without issues.
The "issues" are all those extremists. You can't reason with them and they won't stop until they destroy you.
All those extremists that were voted into power, are cheered for by Palestinians, and represent Palestine in the media and in international relations?
At first I thought you were talking about Israel and its extremist government, not Palestine, where about 44% of the people are under 18. For additional info, the last election in Palestine was in 2006 and Hamas got 44.45% of the vote while Fatah got 41.43%.
Even Palestinians outside of Palestine celebrate when there is a successful attack of their leaders (which is currently Hamas) on civilians.
Additionally, Fatah is a hateful and extremist group as well. This is a recent quote of Fatah's president Mahmoud Abbas:
Link with Source
Fatah is often seen as a type of counter to Hamas, less extremist and secular. But Fatah sprung from the Muslim Brotherhood, just like Hamas. They are the group behind the assassination of the Jordan Prime Minister and the murder on the 11 Israeli athletes in 1972 Olympics in Munich.
You mean like when Israelis egg on war crimes and reinforce it by voting in a far right-wing government and only move further and further to the right with each election? Again, I remind you that most Palestinians weren't even old enough to vote in the last election held in 2006.
based AF. Everyone lives together and learns to get along.
How is that supposed to work when Israel, among other things, allows pride parades and Palestine puts homosexual men into prison for 10 years?
It's called laws sir. You write them and then people follow them. There are plenty of Palestinians that have immigrated to where I'm at and surprisingly I know of no decade long vigilante detentions. That's part of the learning process. Everyone gets to learn acceptance, which I think is preferable to the current state of things.
I don't know in what world you live but just put out laws and people will follow them doesn't seem to be a success story when religious extremists are involved.
Ah, but that's when other laws come into play. It's a system. A system of laws. Look at America, nobody talks about it but Hillary Clinton didn't used to be a fan of gay people, she got over it, along with a bunch of other boomers. That's when the push for laws kicked in and more protections were afforded.
Israel and Palestine combined would be neither, it would be something new. You enshrine rights in your constitution and make it clear that nobody can deny anyone else those rights. Everyone has to give up a bit of what they thought was important, and those who can't let go of their ultra nationalist vision or violence against gays can go sit in time out. They don't get blown up, or shot or treated like animals. They just go get to think about it. OR they could leave and go places that are more in line with their whatever way of thinking. That's compromise. Nobody gets everything they wanted but you get enough.
Also, apologies for the sir part. I hadn't looked at your username and either way it was careless to possibly misgender you, even if it was meant in a joking way.
What people seem to not want to accept though, is, that as long as there are extremist groups peace won't be achieved.
I am from Germany and I know peace and friendship can be achieved between the most unlikely groups. But you need to do something against the hatred on your own side. And I don't see Palestine doing that. At all. The opposite really.
Being from Germany, I would also expect you to understand how quickly cultural norms can change and what both reunification and post conflict restructuring can do for a society. In situations of an imbalanced power dynamic it is almost always those in power who will have to cede privilege to the oppressed to correct that imbalance. This conflict has not started in a vacuum and nobody is excusing the attacks that have led to this current situation, but the collective punishment of Gaza needs to stop. Get over the "this side, that side" dynamic and start thinking about the people. Be on the side of humanity.
I am not on a side. I just think it's sobering how people who normally condemn conservatives and extremists swing their flag quickly into the other direction when they consider that to be "the correct side".
It's also pathetic that people in general seem to be unable to accept that someone who is a victim isn't automatically also righteous and out for peace.
The correct side is simply the one which is considered to have less power. It's simplistic and dangerous and makes me believe that many are teenagers or young adults who want to basically rebel against whatever.
That's not thinking about the people involved, it's not thinking about possible solutions or the future. Rather they just block warden each other in who is the most virtuous.
You really didn't address what I was saying at all. You just re-framed talking points that are going around and then acted like this is about virtue signaling. Why even take the time to write back?
It's for easy access
Liberal values tend to develop better in areas that aren't war-torn. Also, Israel is substantially behind the Western world in queer acceptance, so let's not act like they're a shining beacon just because they've had a couple decades head start.
Palestenians just want to kill all the zionist jews so they dont have a home. Is that so hard of an ask?
Hamas, not Palestinians. And they want to kill all Israelis, not just Zionist Jews.
“the Quran tells us to remove the jews in their entirety… Removing the Jews from the land they occupied in 1948 is an immutable principle because it appears in the Book of Allah... Our position is: Palestine in its entirety and not a grain of soil less. The Quran says "Kill them wherever you may find them". Allah did not define the 1967 borders or the 1948 borders. We will fight them wherever we can" - Mahmoud AlZahar, 2017 (Hamas leader)
This was only 2 months before the hamas charter revision in May 2017. This is the same charter that says they need to jihad against the jews until judgment day.
I don't think they want to kill Arab-Israelis. Everyone else, sure.
Even though, in 7-Oct-23 some Arab and Bedouin Israelis were killed too...