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submitted 1 year ago by NightOwl@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can’t believe how many shitlibs there are in here, using this opportunity to guilt people with an actual conscience into voting for this piece of shit as if he has some sort of moral high ground.

What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?

The real villain here is the system that makes any party outside of the two party system completely irrelevant: first-past-the-post.

We have two Republican parties. One of them just so happens to pretend better at being inclusive..but they secretly also wish that the poor could be burned to fuel their mega-yachts.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The one that isn't taking away trans rights, making abortion illegal, and saying the last election was stolen, seems like the lesser evil actually. I can agree that I think our parties would be slightly better if first past the post was changed to allow for multiple parties, but i think it's ridiculous to say both parties are currently the same. Edit: As I responded to thecrotch, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance of US politics or disinformation given the examples that I gave.

[-] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 12 points 1 year ago

Not to people overseas. There’s no difference between being indiscriminately murdered by a Republican or a Democrat to the people dying.

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[-] thecrotch@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

They don't have to be the same to both suck. The lesser evil is, by definition, evil.

[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

But less evil.

Also by definition.

Who the fuck wants more evil?

[-] thecrotch@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Fine, vote your conscience. I was replying to a guy who said Democrats aren't evil. That guy is wrong. Less evil doesn't mean not evil.

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[-] Brak@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

i can’t see any of them, which means a lot of them must have been banned already from hexbear lol lmao

[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 26 points 1 year ago

Maybe I should switch to hexbear. I feel like I’m on 2016 Twitter, arguing with Neera Tanden’s astroturfing PPI team and they’re trying to brainwash other leftists to think that Single Payer is somehow bad.

[-] bazingabrain@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

please switch, your braincells will grow back, and we have silly stickers to plaster everywhere posadist-nuke

[-] Barabas@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

8 out of a total of 165 comments remain.

Went and checked the lemmy.ml version of the thread, and they sure weren't lying about the shitlibs.

[-] D3FNC@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago

Glory to the moderators

[-] Illuminostro@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

No, we have Eisenhower Republicans, and Nazis.

[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 8 points 1 year ago

I'll grant you that.

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[-] NotErisma@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My thing is, why are some people here just finally throwing away their votes?

Like I knew from a very young age that this country doesn't care and will enthusiastically turn it's back on you if your hardship is an inconvenience to capital in any way, look how they treat the ndns.

And if anything there is money to be made off our suffering.

This is why colonization anywhere is colonization everywhere. From the river to the fucking sea, Palestine WILL BE FREE

[-] thilo@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

This is nonsense. MAGA is a fascist movement. Don't let both being neo-liberal blind you.

[-] cosecantphi@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And yet the United States continues to slide into fascism despite having elected Biden. What horrific Trump era policies did the Democrats even bother to repeal after they won in 2020 and held both the senate and the house?

They are still funding the construction of border wall segments. They never repealed the Republican tax cuts. They have done nothing about the concentration camps on the southern border for fuck's sake. They never codified Roe v. Wade, we literally lost the right to abortions while Biden was in office. They could have stacked the supreme court but they didn't.

The Democrats and the Republicans form an obfuscated one party system in the US. Republican leadership aggressively ramps up the oppression of marginalized people, then Democratic leadership does nothing to restore our rights nor proactively prevent the same thing from happening again. Instead they just use their time in office to suck all of the energy out of people's movements that could actually effect change.

And much more importantly than all of that, Republicans and Democrats are virtually identically evil when it comes to foreign policy. When the US is dropping bombs on you and destroying your country, you'll tend not to care whether it was a Red MAGA or Blue MAGA administration pulling the trigger.

In some specific cases it might be worthwhile to vote for Democrats in local elections where there exists much more leeway for politicians to stray from the party line, but voting for them in national elections is just lending your voice to legitimizing their bullshit good cop/bad cop routine they play with the Republicans.

[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 20 points 1 year ago

Hear hear!!! My sentiments exactly! Thanks for putting it into words better than I could have.

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[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

To me, it sounds a whole lot like both Biden AND Trump can be considered fascists….especially with this idea of secret military aid to Israel that I’m reacting to here.

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Looking at it from an economic definition perspective though Biden represents the financial bourgeoisie and Trump represents more industrial bourgeoisie

[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 13 points 1 year ago

I’d actually argue that Trump comes from the real estate bourgeoisie but I agree on the Biden characterization. Biden never saw an MBNA donor contribution that he didn’t love (like in 2008 when he sold all future generations out for a $250,000 payout from MBNA).

I just don’t see how real estate wealth translates to industry. In general, many of Trump’s areas don’t fully align with the Republican establishment who, in my observation, generally are from real estate, energy, and industry as you mentioned.

Thinking about it more, it seems like real estate has a lot of overlap in both parties.

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

Trump obviously comes from real estate, but his current money-making on a direct level is decidedly media-driven. The question is who gives him money and who benefits from his policy, and I think the answer is that he has a relatively larger amount of support from the petite bourgeois.

[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah that’s true. They found a cash cow in him, though I’d still consider him an outsider (especially after his political capital has been used up).

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[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

Neoliberalism is exactly the economic policies of fascism. Just because they have "civility" aesthetics doesn't change that

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[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Both are fascist, the only difference is where the fascism is pointed. That's why you'll see a lot of fake leftists support Biden, because they don't care about the world all they care about are themselves.

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[-] GreatWhiteNope@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

If they’re both equally evil internationally and mostly equally evil domestically, am I allowed to vote for who is less likely to remove more human rights from women and trans people?

I would never tell anyone that they should vote, I understand people’s reasons for not doing it. Selfishly, I’m going to give myself the best chance of having access to life saving health care until I’m no longer of child bearing age.

[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 11 points 1 year ago

Of course! I'm just standing up to speak my mind. We all are allowed to vote exactly as we see fit. I live in MA where I have the opportunity to vote with my conscience, but in a place like AL, SC, or KY, my strategy wouldn't be helpful to those groups of people.

The two party system makes democracy in the US an absolute sham.

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

In terms of federal representatives, that's rather like a poor white German supporting the Strassers.

[-] GreatWhiteNope@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

If Hitler had actually held an election and the only options were him or a Strasser party, I don’t think it would be immoral to vote for the Strassers. But I also don’t think it would be a moral obligation if you had no reason to believe they would stop the Holocaust.

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler, so I think the moral is that caping for a lesser evil instead of trying to build good (and those two things are normally opposed) is not a constructive behavior. I couldn't give less of a shit who you personally vote for, that's the consumer-lifestyle version of political engagement. I do care somewhat what you advocate for, because promoting the lesser evil is still promoting evil over good (using the overly moralistic phrasing of the adage).

Withholding support from Nazis (on any substantial level) is plainly the better option if you want to not need to keep choosing between two Nazis.

[-] GreatWhiteNope@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

The 1932 election had a communist option, it’s unlikely that there will be one on my ballot.

We’re not going to overthrow fascism in America at the voting booth. I’m not trying to convince anyone to vote for Biden, that’s his job and he’s not doing it very well. I’m also not going to shame anyone for doing something easy like voting in the hopes that it makes them a tiny bit safer.

I would shame someone if they thought that voting democrat is a step towards bringing about positive change or parroted some bullshit about how we can get more concessions from Democrats than Republicans. If voting is the extent of your political engagement, you aren’t opposing fascism.

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this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2023
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