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(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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There is an active genocide happening, and I wish Israel would stop.
That doesn't mean I agree with the coordinated strike by Hamas on 7 October. Frankly, I don't think any reasonable person could see that as achieving any useful objective for the safety of Palestinian people. It was highly effective at killing Israelis, but the net result could only have been more suffering for Palestine.
There's definitely no easy solution - if there was the problem would have been solved by now. All anyone can say is that what's happening now is wrong. Meanwhile, there are many people profiting from the situation. Warmongers gotta monger some war.
My view is that Netanyahu wants to benefit from war, and that Hamas have been encouraged by people who want the same. 50 years isn't all that long ago to most people, but hardly anyone in Palestine is old enough to remember the last Yom Kippur war.
Hamas is a creation of Israels own actions. They have a history of erratic behavior politically including fighting alongside ISIS. They are still the elected government such as it is. It's absolutely sickening seeing comfortable westerners acting like they have some kind of right to pass judgment on people living in such a situation. They fight back however they can, and it's not going to be pretty because war and colonial occupation is not clean.
There is a simple solution, but it would either require Israel to stop being an ethnostate or stop existing so that a government which represents everyone in occupied Palestine can exist.
Anyone murdering civilians is sickening.
Imagine if Hamas had only targeted military installations in their attack, allowing almost everyone at the festival to flee and not raiding villages. Their incursion was incredibly effective - they could still have used drones to take out cell phone towers and prove that Netanyahu's early warning system was deeply flawed, and sniped the skeleton crew in the guard towers, then they could have focused their efforts on infrastructure damage to the military base or other legitimate targets. Hell, they probably even could have still taken a few hostages to use for actual negotiations - and in this scenario negotiations would be far more realistic to happen.
Exercising restraint would have presented a far better underdog for the world to get behind. It would have clearly shown that Israel's defence was weak. Instead, they allowed themselves to be riled up by their financial backers and went on a killing spree, putting the focus squarely on them, not Israel. Most people don't even know how they did it, just what they did when they got in, because what they did was so shocking. This played right into the hands of people who just wanted an excuse to expend some ordnance and kill them all.
It's simple to say that, but the practical application of doing that is anything but simple.
I already said don't care about your bullshit hand-wringing about the what-ifs an occupied people could have or should have done so that they would be a model minority for you (one who gets exterminated without putting up too much of a fight)
Yeah, America would need to stop supporting it and its ongoing genocide for that to happen.
Oh come on now, you criticise me, but you're the one who thinks bloody murder is justified. You really are reprehensible.
Yes America is everything that matters in this situation. Grow the fuck up and step out of your basement.
It's the primary funder, the president said that if Israel didn't exist the US would have had to create it, because it's so geopolitically critical. There's a large number of US ships there right now, in support of Israel.
I'm probably older than you
The existence of Israel is predicted on the bloody murder, and ethnic cleaning of Palestine, and completely unjustified.
*predicated.
The history is far more complicated than that. Israel wasn't really born out of a desire to ethnically cleanse Palestine, it was born out of a desire for a Zionist homeland and for independence from the British. Immediately afterwards, literally the following day, the Arab nations attacked.
Furthermore, Palestine was never really a country over the last 500 years, not until 1988. It was a region in the Ottoman empire, then it was under British control, then it was proposed to be split such that a nation of Israel and a nation of Palestine could be established - however Palestinians rejected this multiple times. Even in the Palestinian Declaration of Independence they didn't really define their territory, saying "The State of Palestine is the state of Palestinians wherever they may be" but referencing the UN Partition Plan.
By all accounts, when Israel was established in 1948 they wanted their own territory in the region as partitioned by Britain/the UN, they didn't want control over the entire region. It was only after successive fighting between Israel and Palestine that Israel developed the attitude they display today.
Whether or not Zionists, Israel, the British or the UN were right in pushing for the formation of an Israeli state is another matter, but the Israel we have now is a direct result of the wars that were fought, wars that Israel won each time. This is markedly different from colonialism, where one nation rules over another but then later grants independence and goes back to ruling its own territory - Israel do not have any other territory to go back to. Palestine taking an "all or nothing" position, as they have over the last 70 years, just isn't a workable solution as it puts Israel in the same boat.
you literally just misspelled 'criticize' in the comment above, but I didn't correct you because I don't fucking care and nobody else does either.
also fuck off colonizer genocide apologist, this is why you got banned
after the 1948 ethnic cleansing of Palestinians
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criticise
Mine was an alternate spelling, yours had a completely different meaning.
this is where our conversation ends colonizer- I hope a brown person fills your mouth with shit someday
Disengage colonizer, nobody wants to read your genocide denial
What genocide am I denying? You're a pathetic liar.
The one happening now.
Fuck off
I've not denied the one happening now, I've criticised it.
Looks like we've come full circle and you've run out of material.
You both sides it you disgusting person
Your one routine is to smugly pass judgement on colonize people for resisting their own extermination, also you're British 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮
@Diva @TWeaK wasn't the secret point of the Iraq War to use it as our foothold in the ME...
I would say that Israel was the foothold, Saddam used to be the US's 'guy' until he wasn't and the Iraq war was a bunch of criminal opportunists seizing on an opportunity to invade and loot a country with a flimsy pretext.