723
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
723 points (90.2% liked)
politics
19148 readers
2041 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
America has always supported fascism abroad; genocide, military coups to overthrow democratic governments, invading countries to conquer land and extract resources.
The thing is though there's usually a clear separation between domestic and foreign policy. Bomb the children in the middle east, not the ones in Los Angeles. Not saying this is right, just that's been the U.S's take in general.
So Trump and domestic fascism is different in a tangible way, it introduces fascism locally, and I don't think individuals or groups that are that openly fascistic will start supporting democracy or proletarian causes overseas.
Voting for domestic fascism as a way to curb fascistic foreign policy approaches probably won't work out too well.
You're taking as given that trump would be more fascist domestically. But why? I mean, it doesn't matter where you genocide someone. So Biden is already reaching the heights of fascism. The only thing more fascist than staging an unjust coup is committing genocide. I don't think it's a bold stance to say that I'd rather see a 2nd J6 than a 2nd Trail of Tears. America is going to come out just fine from the first J6, however the natives absolutely did not come out just fine from the trail of tears.
If the calculus is literally just "vote for the less fascist one", I don't see any way that that's not trump. Biden has already green lit the end goal of fascism to begin with. Hopefully this is the year Americans stand up to our masters though and don't let them lower the bar for president to "not literally helping commit a genocide... Yet." Because I certainly do not have high hopes for the idea of trump actually standing up to our genocidal ally. He is just obviously more likely to do so than Biden.
America is already guilty of one genocide, we need to do everything we can to ensure it doesn't become 2.
To answer your first question, the attempted coup. Biden didn't encourage and rally his supporters to storm Congress. He doesn't have the backing of white nationalists and neo-Nazis. Trying to seize power domestically via a group of fascists is more domestically fascistic than not doing that.
Also, even if Trump suddenly becomes a leftist ally and pulls out all U.S involvement in Israel, they'll still be genociding Palestinians. You can't put literally 100% of the blame of the Palestinian ethnic cleansing on the U.S, when it was actually started originally by British imperialism and is perpetuated by the terrorist state of Israel.
Voting for Trump as a vote against fascism seems wildly misinformed to me. The first Trump presidency already stacked the Supreme Court enough to overturn Roe. If he becomes President again, it's well within the realm of possibility that he pardons Jan 6th offenders, pardons himself, and they seize power permanently in the U.S.
I get your hope that while we're all being subjected to a new fascist dictatorship, that somehow his pure leftist heart changes the behavior of the imperial core and we pull out of Israel, but even if that happens Palestinians will still be genocided. We'll just also have more sociopolitical regression (gay/trans people will be outlawed, the bit of social services we have will be gutted, capitalist exploitation will reach new heights, etc.)
I think US support is critical to Israel being able to genocide, and without it, it may not be capable of genocide at all, given the politics of the region as a whole. Iran wouldn't stand idly by (not that they're necessarily allies against genocide, but for their own interests). I don't know what trump would do, but he did pull us out of Afghanistan, and his politics aren't as tied to the elites' interests as Bidens are. Trump cant profit off the genocide or anything, and he does seem to be somewhat anti war in cases he can't profit off of it. Sure, he might attempt another coup, but that seems favorable to doing nothing while our government aids in a genocide. I'll take a 2nd J6 over a 2nd trail of tears any day.