559
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
559 points (94.2% liked)
politics
19096 readers
3232 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Crazy that they opened fire on people trying to break in to an unoccupied vehicle.
EDIT: Jesus Christ people. Do you think it's ok to discharge a firearm in public to attempt to wound or kill someone trying to break in to an unoccupied vehicle? That's insane.
The secret service don’t fuck around baby.
Obviously this is not the case here, but the reason that I assume they didn’t care to ask questions is because it was apparent that their intention was crime, the extent of it remained unknown to the servicemen at the time.
Now I’m not justifying it through “could’ve been anything”
But imagine if they had more nefarious intentions rather than the probable Nintendo Switch sitting on the passenger seat or something like that. And that’s the issue with accidentally fucking with a nation head’s family. There is very little/no lenience.
It's not just secret service. There's plenty of private citizens who'd open fire, no questions asked, on someone breaking into their car.
or shoot someone for pulling into their driveway by mistake
And assuming there's nobody else around but me and the guy breaking into my car...
Unless you're buddies with the sheriff in the middle of farmtown; you're going to have to explain the trajectory of your bullets being the wrong way around for self defense.
"Who gives a fuck about an Oxford Comma ... " - Vampire Weekend. Apparently you and I do, after seeing the commenter's sentence construction.
They didn't hit anything so it seems like they were fucking around a bit
A secret service vehicle likely has fully automatic weapons inside as well as encrypted radios with current keys and who knows what level of sensitive real time info on presidential movements. It wasn’t just an “unoccupied car” it was a liability that could lead to real danger to the public.
None of which likely constitutes legal justification for deadly force without evidence the offenders' intent was more than just burglary of an unoccupied car (an occupied car would be a different story). There might be a case for the fleeing felon rule after they stole guns, but it would be weak.
I don't have much sympathy for burglars, but shooting in an urban area poses a considerable risk to bystanders and should be reserved for imminent threats to life.
Yes, the case against busted thieves stealing weapons from secret service agents would be "weak". Talk about delusional, sheesh.
The case for shooting them to prevent escape following such a theft would be weak.
Of course they can be arrested and prosecuted for a long list of crimes.
No one should be leaving weapons and especially full automatic weapons unattended in a god damn vehicle!
How fucking dumb do you have to be to leave sensitive security information lying around unattended in a vehicle!
Any vehicle so stuffed with weapons and confidential information that it needs to be defended by lethal force shouldn't be parked and left unattended on a public street! Everything that you've offered isn't justification for lethal force, it's describing behavior so negligent that it would literally rise to the level of CRIMINAL PROSECUTION for any regular person.
Yeah no shit dude it's the secret service.
You honestly don't want the SS to have guns stashed inside vehicles? Really?
Cmon bud. Think this through.
Literally everything about the vehicle is sensitive security information
The guns wouldn’t just be laying across the back seat but they have to be stored somewhere. Most law enforcement vehicles have fixed weapon mounts or ways to lock them in the trunk. The problem is that if the vehicle is stolen it takes 5 min with a power tool to get through virtually any vehicle based mount. The locks prevent smash and grabs but with full possession of the vehicle the guns are up for grabs. As for information, an encrypted laptop is one thing but even knowing which frequencies and codes are used that day might be valuable to the wrong person. I don’t know, I’m not USSS but I am an Air Force pilot who has flown them all over the world and been in their cars/limos. I also know how loading military encryption into the jet is and I imagine it’s not too different from their gear. On a side note, when you see a USSS dog in a “do not pet” vest, it’s not illegal to ask to pet it. I have petted sooooo many “do not pet” goodbois.
I'm aware of vehicle mounts and the ease at which firearms can be removed from them. Its why every LE agency I'm aware of has a policy that you can't leave the vehicle unattended with weapons stored in them.
These should not be left in an unattended vehicle. Even a complete moron knows not to leave valuables in a parked car in the D.C. area and the USSS are not morons. They are people and they fuck up occasionally but they are not morons.
Then you should be well aware of the rules regarding the handling of classified information. At the most basic level its not lawful to leave it unattended in any area where someone with insufficient clearance could gain access to it.
The USSS Personnel who discharged their firearm(s) weren't fighting off terrorists or trying to keep weapons or confidential information secure. According to the released details they fucked up and fired when they shouldn't have at suspects who presented no clear danger.
Goodbois deserve all the pets, as long as you have permission. 🙂
It's easy to dehumanizing people.
You're downvoted but that surprised me as well, being the Secret Service and not [local] police. The perpetrators fled in a vehicle. Doesn't sound like they were a threat; just car thieves trying to flee.
Important to note that only one Secret Service member opened fire. That makes me more suspicious that it was an unjustified use of force.
That's an irresponsible reason to discharge firearms in public. Not worth risking innocent bystanders' lives over petty car thieves.
I expect this armchair analyst from reddit.
Welp, looks like we got them here too
What exactly are we supposed to talk about in the comments section of an article?
The weather is nice but I heard it was supposed to rain tomorrow. Hey did you read that other article about Trump? I don't want an opinion, just to know if you've seen it. As you know we're forbidden from offering opinions.
Ideally not make things up and treat it as fact.
Yeah, fuck me for expressing an opinion in relevant discussion that differs from yours.
I hoped toxic circle-jerking, downvoting every dissenting opinion, and upvoting memes and off-topic jokes over relevant discussion would stay on reddit, but here we are.
The problem isn't stating a opinion. You literally made up shit based on a sentence..
The Secret Service are cop-adjacent to the point that they more than deserve a side eye at the best of times.
But a visibly unarmed person trying to get into the car could very easily be carrying explosives. Since... that would be a reason you would try to compromise the vehicle of a high value target. It goes against basically all gun safety, but driving them off from a likely populated area is probably in that "Net good?" territory.
Especially after trump's presidency and the actions of his corrupt secret service officers, I think they need both eyes staring; not just a side eye.
I just have different expectations of different law enforcement agencies. I guess the stakes are significantly higher in protecting VIPs as secret service, but I still don't believe that it warrants risking the lives of bystanders in this scenario.
I don't believe Biden's grand daughter's life is more valuable than a random passerby's. But obviously the secret service aren't going to view it that way. I can comprehend their duty, but I disagree with firing here.
The Secret Service are law enforcement. Protecting presidents and their families is there most visible role but their original mandate and still primary role is to protect the integrity of US currency with a particular focus on combating counterfeiting.
Yes. Scope creep and repurposing is a long tradition.
But it is also largely irrelevant in this case as the investigative training and procedures used by the currency division are largely unrelated to the bodyguarding done by the.. bodyguard division. It is like arguing that all Army Pilots and Mechanics are also specialized in close quarters combat and clearing buildings. Maybe they remember some stuff from basic training but they are on a drastically different career path.
Culturally? I doubt they are all that different and plenty of them are all about "blue lives matter". But that is why I say they are "cop-adjacent".
The Secret Service are police. They are most well known for protecting presidents and their families but their original and primary mandate is to protect the integrity of US currency. They have jurisdiction over all federal financial crimes and a particular focus on counterfeiting.
I understand that. What I meant was in comparison to local police and Sherrifs departments. I certainly don't view them the same, just as I have different expectations from FBI, DEA, etc. (None very positive, mind you..)
No mention that the thieves had weapons or anything.
Just start blasting?
No mention that they were unarmed either. The article in general is very light on details.
For all we know the secret service shot their own car in a very loud demonstration of "fuck off"
The car is most likely bullet proof
Meaning it’s far more expensive to repair if it gets hit