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Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7
(www.timesofisrael.com)
this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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Again people lose sight of the fact that regardless of hamas actions, that doesn't justify the killing of thousands of kids and families that are taking shelter in the hospital.
If anything, the medical staff and families are also hostages and they shouldn't be killed either.
People kept arguing about the tunnel and the hospital ignoring the genocidal killing of Palestinians.
Tunnels or Hamas using the biggest and maybe only hospital Doesn't justify the bombing of the hospital while people still getting treated from other bombing..
Let’s be accurate here. Thousands have died in Gaza as a result of this conflict, but Israel clearly did not kill thousands at Shifa Hospital.
You're right, the hospital bombed itself.
Hamas surrenders, releases hostages and it's done. But Hamas is the one pushing this war and they're using the suffering of their own people to push propaganda - and people like yourself support their efforts.
If Hamas surrenders, Israel will simply compete the genocide they're in the middle of.
They have literally no chance to win while causing great suffering on everyone around them.
I don't know how a sane person could advocate for HAMAS to continue their terrorist actions.
Alas Lemmy is a shitshow in this regard. Not sure if Reddit is the same but the vibe here makes me barf
Nobody is supporting Hamas. They're saying that there's no justification for the genocide that Israel is engaging in.
It doesn't matter what either side has done when the response is to murder children. It's all unjustifiable.
Reddit is a Zionist mouthpiece.
It is certainly better to kill Israeli soldiers than it is to not kill them. Peace has been tried for over 30 years, but Israel has refused. It's about time Palestine started fighting back. Genociders do not listen to anything short of warfare and terrorism.
Israel has refused? Israel is the one side that negotiated and offered multiple solutions to the conflict lmao
Put yourself in Hamas miltant shoe. Mostly now had lost family members, living since born in a prison, you cannot go to sea, or cross to Egypt or even other part of the country.
What do you think Winning means for them ?
As opposed to the heavy resistance Hamas is currently putting up?
If Israel wanted a genocide they could easily accomplish it. They clearly do not. This entire line of argumentation is beyond stupid.
they haven't actually bombed al shifa, or any hospital for that matter.
okay, can you link any evidence of hospitals being bombed?
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/gaza-attack-on-ambulance-outside-al-shifa-hospital/
Literally Doctors Without Borders explaining that an ambulance right outside the hospital was blasted during bombings.
I'll remark the words of the other user:
Can you open any news article not written by the IDF?
I mean, I read through what you posted and it literally never says Israel bombed hospitals.
HRW just cites a Tweet by “WHO in occupied Palestine” that is very non-specific while sounding specific.
The relevant bits from the Tweet used as the primary source by HRW:
“We are horrified at the latest reports of attacks on and in the vicinity of Al-Shifa Hospital, Al-Rantisi Naser Pediatric Hospital, Al-Quds Hospital, and others in Gaza city and northern Gaza, killing many, including children.”
“Over the past 36 days, WHO has recorded at least 137 attacks on health care in Gaza, resulting in 521 deaths and 686 injuries, including 16 deaths and 38 injuries of health workers on duty.”
If I thought I knew better from my seat in a chair what was going on in Gaza than the humanitarian organizations on the ground there then I would simply log off and touch grass.
I mean, when you are calling people liars because they don’t agree with you, especially when your own sources don’t support what you say, I’m pretty sure that’s a sign you need to log off and touch grass.
Is it possible Israel has bombed hospitals in Gaza? Certainly.
Did you provide proof? No.
Clearly the UNRWA and the doctors at MSF don't know what they're talking about. Only the IDF does.
Clearly you can't even read or are mentally broken. The link above doesn't say the hospital itself was bombed. Go to sleep, it must be late in the morning, tankie
You are the liar, or just an idiot. Your own source doesn't say anything about the hospital itself being bombed
Hmm.
Keep it civil. Removed.
Super cool how lying about hospitals not being bombed is "civil" but calling it out for the lie that it is somehow isn't.
Attacking the contents of an article is absolutely allowed, attacking other users is absolutely NOT allowed.
So in your comment:
"Liar. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis"
That's fine. "Liar" is maybe a little strong, I personally would have allowed it, other mods may not have. Your mileage may vary.
It was the personal attack against the other user AFTER that where you crossed the line and caused the comment to be removed.
I disagree that saying someone is ignorant or that I would STFU if I was that ignorant is a personal attack. I also do not see how that is somehow more objectionable than lying about bombed civilians.
It's literally an ad hominem attack and is not allowed.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
You've also been warned about this before according to the modlog (which is public information):
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=82695
If you keep it up, you're cruising for a temporary ban.
I haven’t received notifications for any of those other warnings as far as I can tell, the links in the log won’t actually load for me. I also stand by them and encourage everyone to check out my forbidden opinions. It’s hilarious that one of them is literally a single sentence of me asking a mod for clarification.
Btw, why is lying about murdered civilians fine but calling someone ignorant is beyond the pale?
Not all mods bother replying to comments they remove, I choose to because I believe transparency is an important part of moderation.
As to the question, engaging in personal attacks violates rule 5 in the sidebar (which I wrote BTW):
"Rule 5: Keep it civil. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!"
Ok, I understand that your stance is that ignorance is not a neutral statement of fact but a personal attack, and I do appreciate you replying unlike the last mod I asked that just deleted my comment without answering. Which I also had no idea about because I don’t monitor the mod log of every place I comment.
It’s just a really awful policy for the exact reason I’ve been underlining over and over: if polite lies about mass murder are fine and calling someone ignorant for saying heinous shit isn’t fine, you’re just creating an environment where impoliteness is worse than bigotry. And yeah I see the rules against that, doesn’t seem to be doing anything about the overt lie that hospitals haven’t been bombed.
“It’s the rules” is a terrible justification for leaving up lies about mass murdered civilians as long as they’re polite.
If the facts are on your side, I absolutely encourage you to refute incorrect information, just don't attack the other user in the process.
"I'm sorry, you're wrong. - Link."
"Reality disagrees. - Link."
That's all cool.
Ad hominem attacks cross the line. When you start going after the other user, that's a problem and we don't want flamewar threads top to bottom. That's why the rule exists.
If you don't want flame wars then removing obvious flame bait--like lies about mass murdered civilians and hospitals not being bombed--would go a lot farther than deleting everyone that calls that shit what it is.
I've explained the mod position multiple times. It's not up for debate. You're now starting to shade over into a different form of disingenuous argument affectionately called "sealioning".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
From here:
https://wondermark.com/c/1k62/
Don't argue with mods. You can't win, you can only get removed or banned.
If you want to run a community where it's more offensive to say someone is ignorant than it is to lie about mass murdered civilians I'm not under the delusion that I can make you do anything else. Just don't expect me to not say it's a shitty policy or to ignore what it allows and what it doesn't allow.
Warned, 3 day ban.
So the rule actually isn't "don't make personal attacks", it's "don't tell the mods that their policies are bad." Maybe you should add that to the sidebar.
Repeated sealioning. 7 day ban.