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this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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To explain this to non South Africans.
The ruling ANC party is in the pocket of the russians.
The majority of South Africans think they are just following the policies of their masters.
Right. Because south africa has absolutely no agency of our own, right? We can't do anything worthwhile without european or white masters /s
I suppose the colonial mindset hasn't left all south africans
As a complete outsider, it's not looking great at the moment.
The ANC simply has sold out to new masters. They are all very black ownership and empowerment when it comes to giving tenders to companies, but the moment the russians or the Chinese are involved and the bribes get paid, all those principles are out the window.
No one is denying that south africa has a corruption problem. But that doesn't mean that SA's stance against israel on the ongoing ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians is because Russia or China told us so.
You're conflating the two issues. There is absolute disgust and anger at the israelis and absolute empathy towards the Palestinians because we went through the same brutalisation and dehumanisation by a racist radicalised minority government that the Palestinians are going through right now.
I would say that the Palestinians are actually subjected to worse than what south africans were subjected to. And that's really saying something, because we know how awful apartheid was and how much brutalisation we were subject to during apartheid.
I think you're ignoring that the south african government ( minus the DA and and their allies) and the people of south africa support the palestinians because we recognise exactly what an apartheid oppressor state looks like, and we recognise israel as being an apartheid oppresssor.
Aparheid wasn't that long ago that we've forgotten what it was like. We're still living through the repercussions of it, and will be for many years to come. We know the palestinian people are living through the same. And when they're free of the israeli apartheid inflicted on them they'll have to live with the repercussions of that for many generations.
It's empathy that south africa is feeling.
I agree with you, so let me clarify
In my experience South African people feel very much the way you are describing and rightly so.
But when it comes to the ANC, they only do things that are to their personal benefit, there is no humanity there. If they do the right thing, it's purely an accident.
They are a kakistocracy and a parasitic government. They add no value and they do not protect its citizens. At least since the early-mid 2000's.
Ok i see, i think i understand what your position is now. I don't fully agree but i can respect it.
Ah, yes, it could absolutely not be the case that a country legitimately decides to cut diplomatic ties with Israel after they show no issue in provoking the deaths of over 10.000 civilians from a neighbouring country. Must be the Russians.
The ANC is also anti Ukraine independence.
And they sell arms to the russians.
Not saying there are not good reasons to disfavour Israel, but cutting diplomatic ties is stupid. It's basically telling Israel to do their own thing, because we are going to stop talking to them.
Cutting diplomatic ties is a double-edged sword, in the sense that you cut your own capacity to aid your citizens and companies to deal with Israeli authorities at the expense of cutting Israel's capacity to deal with your institutions for the sake of their citizens and companies. It makes sense if you have very little capacity to twist the other party's arm, but are willing to say: "I'm willing to bring harm to the both of us until you choose to change your behavior", which might change the calculation on what is the most profitable course of action to take for the other party. Not that Israel is going to change its national policy because they're dying to make business in South Africa, but if it adds up to a larger pile of sanctions that might come from other countries, it helps.
Yeah, unfortunately plenty of political groups weight more heavily being against a certain geopolitical block than consistently defending humanistic values.
Surely, South Africa wouldn't have any reason to view apartheid in a negative light.