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this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2023
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This is it, one of the downsides of a decentralized network like the fediverse here is that there is no current way to prevent brigading. It seems like this is mainly just one super MAGA dude ranting and a bunch of brigaders responding. I was going to give it some time and see if it mellowed out as it developed.
I don't think there is any "brigading" going on here.. Just to be clear what brigading actually is:
On reddit, there was a time when there were coordinated and organised efforts to "invade" another communities. For example, there were threads on 4Chan where users linked to subreddits or posts with the aim of having a bunch of users post similar stuff at the same time.
There was also brigading within reddit when one sub would make a post where they coordinate users to post specific comments in specific threads or post similar stuff in a specific subreddit.
As far as I can tell, that's not what is happening here.. There is no coordinated group effort here, it's just that the vast majority of users on lemmy are not conservatives.
Are Lemmy communities not able to moderate themselves?
Moderating can only go so far for brigading. Mass downvotes aren't something moderators have control over. There's also the risk of what reddit did where tons of subreddits proactively banned people simply for participating in other subreddits without ever posting in the banned subreddit.
The bottom line is that while reddit is super liberal, lemmy is openly hostile to anyone right of center and I don't see any realistic solution to this. Welcome to the growing pains of a 15+ year old system going down and starting over from scratch.
I guess on Reddit conservative communities just have the critical mass needed to overcome the downvotes?
I suppose there being enough subreddits to distract people to the communities they’re interested keeps them from trolling/brigading/etc the communities they’re not.
The /r/conservative subreddit bans anybody who isn't conservaitve from commenting in the majority of important threads.
Does a ban stop someone from downvoting though? I didn’t think it did, but I’m not 100% sure.
A ban does, but at least with the comments its more of a lock out I think.
I'm actively removing offending posts and banning trolls. Bear with us, moderation tools are lacking, but I promise we're working behind the scenes to keep discussion on topic.
The solution to brigading is to move to an instance that doesn't federate with brigaders.
If you don't like the instance you're on, you're free to go somewhere else.
I mean, completely unfederated instances kinda defeat the point. I get along just fine with real liberals and have plenty of views that bridge both. Limiting participation to a single isolated instance is basically pointless, especially as an actual replacement for reddit. Brigading and hostility to anyone that isn't part of the circle jerk is just a disadvantage to the solution to admin/CEO-proofing lemmy as a whole.
All instances start fully federated, and slowly get defederated by the communities that choose to do so.
Like it or not brigading is what stops places from being echo chambers.
Either way I'm not looking for isolated echo chambers with virtually no variety of content. Defederated instances defeat the entire point. I can get along just fine with people who I don't agree with 100%, it would just be nice if others can do the same.
This is literally 100% false. Justify it however you want but your goal is to run anyone out that you disagree with so only your personal views are left. That isn't stopping it from being an echo chamber.
I think the problem is that much of the "conservative" side is, well, divorced from reality. If you want to find a place in the fediverse that will simply let that slide, it's not gonna happen. As long as you've got Trump leading the polls, his lackeys wasting time in the House on nonsense while ignoring criminals like Santos, other idiots banning books, a SCOTUS that's the most blatantly corrupt, well, ever, etc. etc. etc. you're going to have a bad time.
No it's not
Its already a far left echo chamber.
You're more than welcome to stay here and make posts that criticize the left. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can either deal with an instance that leans left, or you can deal with one that doesn't. It's up to you.
It's almost as if, people living off big bro, begging for free money and debt forgiveness have plenty of free time to chat on the internet all day.. Meanwhile, conservatives are out in the world trying to hold the damn thing together!
Regarding the matter at hand. I don't agree that it's right to ban people who have opposing views. Most of my comment history here is talking to the leftists about that exact thing. Because yes, this place, as new as it is, is already feeling like a lefty's echo chamber...
sad x indeed
Have you actually asked people how they make a living, or are you just assuming?
Why is it that it is ok for the airline industry, the banks, corporate AG, etc, can all get these corporate bailouts, but when it is the people themselves that need a bailout, it's mocked and derrided?
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list
Here is a list of corporations who have gotten govenment bailouts. Have you taken issue with a single one of these? Or do you only ever talk about social programs? Because when I poke my head inside conservative spaces all of the complaints go towards services that help people instead of corporate bail outs.
There are just as many posts on the internet from conservatives as there are from leftists.
Conservatives are voting to destroy the environment at every chance:
https://eos.org/articles/environmental-ratings-lowest-ever-for-congressional-republicans
How can they hold the world together when they are voting to kill the environment/world?
I'm from Alaska. Everyone I know and their sons either kill millions of salmon every year or works for the oil industry.
You're right that big bro probably shouldn't be bailing out anyone. Unfortunately, truly free markets are hard to advocate for. The college debt topic is an easy target because we're tradesmen who didn't need colleges to begin with and all you silly kids getting degrees for stuff nobody needs is hilarious. Sociology, gender studies, etc etc. News flash, there's only two genders, I and the trillions of people that came before me didn't need a degree to figure that one out.
My statement about conservatives being outnumbered on the internet is anecdotal, obviously. From what I see, reddit, lemmy, kbin, twitter, etc... Mostly leftist echo chambers. If I'm wrong, oh well, NBD. Take yourself for example, a lefty hanging out in a conservative magazine. I fully support your decision to engage in debate BTW.
We aren't voting to destroy the planet, we're voting to keep our careers, livelihoods, traditions, morals, etc. Praying that our traditions and value will continue to have a positive influence on the world who, used to, look up to this country and our freedoms (yes, I'm a full blown ethnocentric and proud!). We also don't vote to discriminate, we vote for a fair and equal opportunity across the board. Regardless of your skin color or the awful choices your parents might have made as the leaders of your life.
Nothing we as a species can do will change the natural course of the planet. Fossil fuels have enabled us to save countless lives from unavoidable, natural disasters. Nothing you vote for will detour third world countries from continuing the path of destruction.
I don't think they're anywhere near as silly as you think they are. The top most popular degreese are:
Business - I don't typically think of these as useful degrees, but if the U.S. is going to stay competitive, then there needs to be people to run our industries and companies.
Health professionals - I would hope that you see this as a valuable type of degree
Social sciences and history - (Ex: Anthropology, criminology, economics, geography, history, legal studies, political science, social work, sociology) - All of which are important for a healthy society.
Engineering - Again, pretty self evidently valuable
Biological and Biomedical sciences - Same as above
Psychology - This one is definitely oversaturated, but it isn't a silly degree, and it's a very high need given how prevelent our country's mental health problems go
Communication and Journalism - (Ex: Advertising, editing, marketing, media communication, public relations, technical writing, translation, writing) - These all have varying degrees of importance. The journalism related ones are easily the most important here. The advertising/marketing ones I would like to see disappear, but again, they aren't exactly silly.
Visual and Performing Arts - A healthy society should have a decent bit of this. I'd rather have a cultured society.
Computer and Information Sciences - Our world is built on computers, so another self evidently valuable set
Education - Same as above
And that makes up the majority of fields/degrees that people are getting. They aren't silly.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most-popular-college-majors/
Sociology is important to maintain the health of our society. If we don't study the ways in which our society is failing people, how can we expect things to get better? And as for gender studies, those fill a similar role.
How do you know this?
Conservatives absolutely are doing so. Any time there is any legislation put to vote that would reduce our emission it gets shot down by conservatives. If we continue on this course the end result will be our planet becoming uninhabitable. If you work in a field reliant upon the fossil fuels that are destroying our planet, then you should pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find a job that won't kill the planet. As for the traditions/morals, any tradition that destroys our planet deserves to die, and it isn't moral to kill the planet.
We absolutely can. During the pandemic, global emissions droped like a rock. It is absolutely in our capability to build a society in which we maintain our freedoms while getting rid of fossil fuels.
And that was cool for the 1900s, but we need to move past it because they are actively killing us, and it's only getting worse. Currently, 7 million people a year are dying from reckless pollution. The polluters/fossil fuel industry needs to be held accountable for their actions.
https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths
We have clean technologies that we can invest in within third world countries. We absolutely can and should do so to avoid this disaster from getting worse and/or unrecoverable.
https://youtu.be/Uo5Bi_cs2AU
Is there some point you were trying to make here?
If you don't see the relevance to parts of our ongoing conversation, I don't know what to tell you.
I see the relevance, but no point.
Alright, lemmy help you out, buddy...
Private research has been instrumental in the development of groundbreaking drugs, aerospace technology, internet and communication technologies, agricultural biotechnology, transportation systems, financial innovations, and energy production. While many private ventures have been absorbed by the government or heavily subsidized in modern times, renewable energy technologies still require substantial upfront investments compared to fossil fuels. The existing energy infrastructure is designed for centralized fossil fuel power generation, making the intermittent nature of renewable energy sources a challenge. Transitioning to renewable energy requires changes in infrastructure and workforce skills.
Renewable energy is expected to become increasingly mainstream in the future, but at this point in time, it is simply unreliable and under developed. It's not about policy reform, it's about reliability.
Secondary point, the government is inefficient and under performing at almost everything they do and it's up to the populous to get shit done.
Actually, let me help YOU out buddy. The upfront cost of renewable energy is nothing in comparison to the long term cost of continued fossil fuel usage. It's ultimately cheaper to fix the problem than to let it fester.
A challenge to which we have the solution. We have the tech to build nuclear reactors, the most reliable type of power, and we have reliable storage options that make intermittent sources easy to deal with.
And at scale, renewables are very reliable.
Good. That means it will provide lots of good paying jobs.
Let me break it down for you buddy. These problems don't ultimately mater, because we simply cannot afford to fuck around anymore. The literal monetary cost as well as the cost of people's livelihoods is way higher if we do nothing.
You have this unrealistic expectation that the solution must be flawless. The survival of our species very well may be at stake, and at a minimum the livelihoods of billions of people is at stake. We can't afford to be so picky. Millions, potentially billions will die.
That's like saying "fire extinguishers are terrible! They can't put out all fires, they're inefficient. We should instead use kids water guns from the dollar store"
The government is inefficient, but the population is far worse.
While some college degrees are useful, I wasn't addressing all of them specifically, nor are their specifics relevant to the argument. The argument is against sociology and gender studies.
Our society is failing because we're shifting a child's dependence from their parents to the government. Adults too who are in desperate need of assistance no longer seek out their neighbors or local religious establishments, they instead depend on the government. Both of these aspects require excessive taxation and social goods to be either bolstered or built from the ground up.
Sociology doesn't provide practical skills that directly translate into specific careers. The job market is very limited, with many graduates failing to find jobs related to their degree. The study of society and human behavior is subjective, theories and findings are influenced by the researcher's perspective, making it difficult to establish definitive truths. These biases are often disconnected from real-world applications.
Almost all the same things can be said about gender studies, because it’s irrelevant to practical applications in the real world.
Men don’t menstruate and cannot get pregnant. Women cannot produce sperm and don’t have prostate glands. Try all you might, ingesting what you shouldn’t, you’re still going to be bound by the chromosomes you were born with.
Lefties are all about “trust the science, bro” yet when it comes to basic biology, often they’d rather rewrite the literature to fit some asinine ideology. HRT isn’t gender affirming, it is gender contradicting.
You see emissions, we see livelihoods.
Simply suggesting that people switch jobs overlooks the economic realities faced by millions of individuals. Are you going to build the businesses that employ all the people who have no jobs? Probably just expect the government to do it.
Drive a car powered by oil drilled by Americans, or drive a car who's resources were mined by child labor and other unethical work forces... The choice is yours.
Scientific consensus suggests reversing global warming is impossible. While some tactics might slow down the process, you're just beating a dead horse. The planet will die eventually, with or without human intervention.
Telling coal and wood fired pizza shops in NYC to reduce their emissions isn't going to do anything compared to the military, the over seas shipping industry, the private jets, etc. Beating a dead horse.
You think you’re helping, but you’re just making millions of lives more difficult, both the people you’re telling to get new jobs that don’t exist and the people you’re supporting overseas who have much less ethical employment practices.
Not sure which freedoms you think you still have when you're being told to not leave your house, not get close to people, cover your face to muffle your voice and expressions... But it feels like that just circles back to my original statement regarding chatting on the internet all day... Maybe you're content with interacting with people over video and text chat. Maybe you like sitting at a computer all day doing fuck all. Most people don't.
Gloomy clouds indicate upcoming rain, reducing the number of vehicles on the road improves air quality. Profound.
Assessment of a technology's environmental impact should consider its entire life cycle, including the extraction of raw materials, manufacturing, operation, and disposal. Large-scale deployment of renewable energy projects lead to habitat destruction and harm to local ecosystems. Similarly, the increased demand for certain raw materials, such as lithium and cobalt for batteries contributes to environmental degradation and human rights issues.
No technology is “clean”, the sooner you face the facts the better off we'll all be.
You absolutely should do the things that make you feel better about yourself and the impact you have on the world. You absolutely shouldn’t try to infringe on your neighbor by forcing them to follow you. Forcing me and mine through legislation to invest in your capital ventures through taxation is immoral theft.
Then you have even less of an argument to stand on, because those degrees make up a tiny minority of degrees.
You can believe whatever you like about the failures of society, that's a different question.
Those are things related to sex, but the question is about gender, a different concept. So that doesn't answer the question, how do you know that there are only two genders?
Science always re-writes itself to become more accurate than what it once was. It's better to change to something less incorrect than to stay bolted down to something that isn't close to being correct.
As for HRT, it is gender affirming because as I previously said, gender and sex are two different things. You are born with an assigned sex, but gender is performative.
This is just taking a page out of Don't Look Up.
Tough tities, maybe you should have thought about that before killing the planet. Your freedom to swing your fists ends at my nose.
I expect both the government and the free market to do so. The government needs to stop giving socialist handouts to the fossil fuel industry and instead put us on an exit path for our use of fossil fuels. The market needs to provide the replacement jobs.
That's true. But that doesn't change the fact that ALL of those sources of emissions need to cut down.
So between:
Reducing emissions - making millions of lives more difficult
Doing fuckall - making billions of lives more difficult, millions more deaths, potential food chain collapse, and possible mass extinction level event
Between those options the second one is somehow the more favorable one? How does that make sense? And I sincerely have no clue what you're talking about with oversea employment practices. When discussing with people it is best not to just assume what the other person supports.
The neat part is, all of those things weren't the source of the reduced emissions. So it is absolutely within our power to replicate the parts that reduce emissions without doing the things you just listed here that hurt people's freedom.
I spend maybe a half hour on this at most, over the course of a few days, every few months. It's nowhere near all day.
The resources our society needs to continue to exist far surpass what is possible to collect without habitat and ecosystem destruction. I am well aware that there is no such thing as perfectly clean technology. But we have technology that is far, far cleaner than fossil fuels. As for the lithium/cobalt mining issues, I don't think we should be using those kinds of batteries for storage anyways. Hydro electric is clearly the cleanest form of energy storage we have, and should be the primary source of energy storage for electrical grids.
As for cars, we need to drastically reduce our dependence on them and focus on better city planing to reduce the number of long trips. We need that, and better public transportation. And for the times when cars are absolutely needed, electric cars are still overall better for the environment than ICE cars even if they aren't perfect.
I'm not forcing anybody to follow me. I'm just pointing our how absurd it is that we continue to rely on fossil fuels, and how absurd it is to claim that conservatives are the ones holding everything together. Conservatives are the ones responsible for our planet dying from fossil fuels. And given how much you've argued for their continued use, I think you've proven my point for me.
I have no such capital ventures. None of what I have suggested is new technology.
My previous comment was too many characters apparently.
*, and the government subsidizing education
Education is the backbone of a society as technologically advanced as ours. Without it, our society will slip.
Ahh yes, all us silly kids getting degress and running the logistics that allow you to sell your salmon in the first place. Y'all conservatives just love being divorced from the real world don't you? I'm all for good fait conversation, but your opinion stated loudly doesn't make it fact. It just makes you another blustering 'hard worker" who has no idea how the modern world works since your ignorance is so blissful