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this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
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Pay to carry seems pretty not ok to me.
But it's pay to drive, right? I suppose driving isn't mentioned in the bill of rights, but I'd argue neither is the individual right to wield a firearm.
You pay for car accidents and they don't pay out for intentional stuff. You don't really hear much about accidental shootings from people while they're out carrying. The act of carrying isn't dangerous.
The act of carrying is inherently more dangerous than not. That is an indisputable fact that you don't even need statistics to know. I am infinitely more likely to die by a firearm if it exists in the first place rather than not.
https://time.com/6183881/gun-ownership-risks-at-home/
I claim you're ignorant and your link is not anything to do with being out conceal carrying. Your argument also is of "guns not existing" rather than one of "people wanting to legally carry needing to pay."
They are not the same thing.
I provided a link to evidence illustrating my point that the presence of a gun presents a greater risk of dying to a firearm. The study is about a different situation, but both deal with the presence of firearms. I would welcome evidence to the contrary rather than insults because I am engaging you here in good faith.
I say adding a gun to any situation increases the chances of a gun being used simply because it is present. More guns in more places = more opportunities for them to be used. I think that is simple logic, and again I welcome you to refute it.
This is something that requires people who carry weapons in public to be capable of providing restitution to anyone harmed by their actions. I can't see a massive harm in it other than disproportionately affecting the poor.
Obviously, if no guns exist, no guns can be used. That isn't even worth you bringing up. But since they do exist and are present, this is just a silly money grab and/or a way to restrict and even further incarcerate the poor half of the country. Making someone pay money to be allowed to carry around anything is just asinine. What next? Shall we charge you a fee for your propane bottle because you can make it explode? Your pencil because you can stab someone with it? Charge extra if you live above the 2nd story because you could push someone to their death?
There are literally millions of people who conceal carry every day. The ones who would pay insurance or simply stop carrying aren't the ones hurting people. The "insurance" would just be for them. It wouldn't be for the people you want to worry about.
I'm not saying if there were no guns, but fewer, and more tightly regulated. I think this particular law is not a solution by any means to be clear, but at least it's something. You make the same points here that I see against gun control and regulation more broadly, so I'm speaking to that as well.
I mean the difference between a gun and that stuff that a gun is designed to kill things -- humans. It's not exactly comparable to a pencil or even propane which is comparatively very safe. The US has an extremely high per capita rate of firearm violence, even ignoring suicides which are a huge problem. We don't have a propane problem
I am hopeful laws that have a bigger, more positive effect can be passed
I'm saying that creating a law or regulation that doesn't in any way reduce the amount of guns in a violent or potentially violent person's hands doesn't do anything at all.
How many people who aren't already felons and not allowed to have so much as a knife on them anyhow and are going to pay an insurance fee to carry, and be someone to worry about needlessly shooting someone while away from their home while they're carrying do you think there are? Almost all the shootings that aren't self defense and are outside of homes is done by people who already weren't even allowed to carry to begin with. All the big mass shootings never seem like they're done on a whim, so those people obviously wouldn't be deterred by an insurance requirement at all.
Yeah but if we can't drive around shooting our guns as a protected freedom of expression, are we really free?
You are walking around with a deadly weapon. We test, register, and insure people who drive around with a deadly weapon.
Nothing about the 2A says you do not assume liability for exercising your right. ain fact, all of US case on this would say the opposite. You absolutely assume liability for both what you do with your weapons, and what you fail to do with your weapons.
There is a definable risk to life and property associated with carrying. And the cost of that risk should be born by those perpetuating it. I hear carrying supposedly makes things safer, so presuming the actuarial tables agree that cost should be totally nominal in which case why not?
Well then everyone who doesn't carry should be paying the insurance by your logic.