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Can Parents Prevent Their Sons From Sliding to the Right?
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this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
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Men's Liberation
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So how are they left if they don't actually enable core leftist ideas?
Democrats in the USA would be a rather conservative (when it comes to economics ) party in most social market economy countries. Which is my point - it's not that the left does not have solutions for social inequality problems. It's just that there are no politicians in power (in the USA and UK) who are interested in bringing those to life.
They're "left" because we live in a 2 party system and they did spend money on healthcare and education.
I get what you're saying. Essentially I'm saying the same thing,the left aren't left enough to ensure their policies help everyone instead of a select few.
But they are the left under FPTP voting where most votes get disenfranchised.
So you kind of identified the problem in the political system as of itself but still you are blaming the left?
You're identifying "the left" how exactly.
I'm saying if the left in those countries wants to win votes they have to gain voters by offering them something. That's what moves the Overton window, a party trying to appeal to a broad base.
We don't have a system which encourages a left, right, and centre leading to coalition governments.
We have a FPTP system which encourages 2 major parties to try and form coalitions within themselves to win an absolute majority in government. With outsiders getting disenfranchised.
Which coalition will the young male voter join? The one offering them something.
In a FPTP system what you seem to identify as "the left" are not the left. They are outsiders, detached and not pulling the government one way or the other.
They are involuntarily neutral voters except when they vote for one of the major 2 parties.
I disagree with the disenfranchisement in the system. I identify it as an additional problem. But the core problem is a lack of appeal to that demographic.
People who try to put leftist idea into work?
So again, you clearly see that the US-American political system is absolutely broken and bonkers, but blame the left for it. Which in USA (at least economical left) did not have any power to beginn with.
Maybe I'm not getting your message.
The right have what they want. Often with a minority of the voters.
Who else to blame for the failing of the left but the left.
They're disadvantaged by the system but don't make changes to fix it.
Given the system in place the left do not unite. While the only way to win is a party of a broad coalition.
The last republican to win the popular vote without being an incumbent was 35 years ago. Yet given close results and chances to turn elections in their favour the left have lost multiple times and have a 6-3 loss on the supreme court.
In the UK we've not had a united left wing party since the Iraq war in government or in opposition.
We'll see what happens in the elections this year.
But yes. I blame "the left" as a disorganised majority for losing to an organised majority.
If electoral reform has been put through while the left had power I'd have more sympathy. But it wasn't. Either the left is willing to empower the majority of it isn't. It's either going to try and win democratically or win with its own minority. Disenfranchised people like the right does.
Ok, so you are making the left responsible for being not more successful in implementing their ideas and reforming the political system? Which is fair, I guess - but also seems trivial.
I think the political system and the disenfranchisement of voters has been the clear difference in the second half of the 20th century between social democracies which have succeeded in reducing inequality and those which have failed.
Ultimately the way we vote for people and the governments we end up with as a result are the least trivial aspect of politics.
Who cares about discussing issues like the economy or immigration, or equality, or any number of foreign policy decisions.
Ultimately only a third of the population are getting their choice in power at any given time under FPTP. There's a winning minority, a losing minority, and a minority with no chance of someone to vote for gaining any power.
Divide and rule by those wishing to suppress democracy. Usually for monetary gain in corruption or avoiding taxation.
Again, I don't really get what you are trying to say. I don't see any clear connection between different parts of your answer or how it's connected to our conversation at all.
Well I'm not going to try and dumb it down for you step by step.
That's up to you. If you don't care about people actually understanding what you say, I can't help. Than again why participate in a conversation in the first place?
I simply didn't think I'd have to dumb it down for you.
Politics is interconnected and complicated. You're just after a simple argument which doesn't reflect reality.
If you don't see why what I'm saying is relevant to the conversation that's on you.
One sentence answers asking for help aren't holding up your side of the conversation to make it interesting to engage in.
Fascinating, so you not only have troubles to convey your opinion but also are incapable of understanding others.
It's always the others. How convenient. Does this also happens to you in relationships?
Sorry for not being entertaining enough.
So are you like just a debate bro? Or why do you talk with people if you don't care if they get you or not?
Apology accepted. If you want to try again and actually engage with the points raised, feel free.
But you've just confirmed I was right about you. You just want a simple argument you can understand and feel righteous about.
You got me.