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Are we the baddies?
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this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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Well, the empire from Star Wars was based on the US empire after all, and the rebels were based on the Viet Cong.
That's partially true, the Empire was based on inspiration from the US, Nazi Germany, and USSR. The rebels are of course the Viet Cong.
Thank god the "empire" funded and supported the rebels against the empire lmao
The Viet Cong are not the only rebels to have ever existed, the USSR is well known to use excessive military force against its own rebels.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
How much force would have been appropriate then, do you think?
Also, NATOpedia article lmao
Citation needed on that USSR claim, Lucas has only, to my knowledge, spoken of the USSR with respect to the inspiration he took from their film industry. He's outright stated that the Empire is the US and the Rebels the Viet Cong, plus there are the obvious allusions to the Nazis with Stormtroopers and the color of the Empire's unirorms, but to my knowledge nothing connecting to the USSR.
Return of the Jedi special edition commentary.
Believe it or not, Lucas is capable of finding both positives and negatives about both the US and the USSR.
Most of the aesthetic of Empire architecture is inspired by brutalist Soviet architecture, and ceremony for the Emperor's arrival was inspired by October Revolution Day military parades.
Thanks for the answer, any links or quotes? Can't find anything online.
If I have the time and motivation when I'm home I'll rip the relevant portion of the commentary and upload.
Thanks, I'd appreciate it! Don't stress out over it though, I'm just a curious rando.
The USSR was also a fascist dictatorship, the actual bureaucratic structure of the Galactic Empire much more closely resembles the USSR.
Edit: good points were made, it's overly reductive to call the USSR a facist dictatorship
This, I disagree with. The USSR was Marxist-Leninist and run by Soviets, not a fascist millitary dictatorship. Whether or not you or I believe the USSR was truly democratic or a betrayal of Socialist values is of little consequence when compared to the vastly different structure of Nazi Germany, which was a blend of corporations and an ethno-state.
The Empire appears to be more similar to Nazi Germany, where there exists a blend of corporations with a totalitarian state, rather than a command economy centered around worker councils.
I think it's hard to argue that the USSR wasn't a military dictatorship under Stalin. The USSR was hyper-nationalist and relied heavily on extensive police and military forces that used excessive violence to keep dissenters in line.
The USSR wasn't pursuing an ethno-state like Germany, but neither is the Galactic Empire. You might argue that despite the Galactic Empire being diverse in species, notably only white human men served as officers and leaders and dominated the military, but I'm not sure that's an intentional world-building decision rather than that's just how films in 1977 were made. I'm not yet aware if the USSR was known for being gender and race inclusive in its government or military structure either.
The USSR was a one-party state, and the state did own and control everything. However, this is fundamentally entirely different from Nazi Germany, which was a combination of corporations and a party owning and controlling everything in a totalitarian Capitalist manner.
It's reductive to call the USSR fascist, in my opinion. The USSR wasn't a shining beacon of tolerance and democracy, of course, but at the same time it absolutely was not fascist. The Russian Federation, that rose from the ruins of the USSR, is fascist, and run by extremely wealthy Capitalists.
As for equality in the USSR, gender economic equality was generally high overall, especially when compared to other nations, and especially in the military, but not within government. As for racism, it was apparently much, much better than modern Russia, so make of that what you will, but the state was seemingly mostly composed of white men. Homosexuality was made illegal by Stalin, I do know that.
You made some good points, I concede I was being overly reductive. I think you made a great summary of it.
I edited my previous comment to reflect how you changed my mind.
Thanks, no problem! I think it's totally fine to be firmly against the USSR, for clarification, but I also believe that fascism should be as clearly defined and understood as possible, because in the modern era it poses a genuine threat, so understanding what it looks like and how it operates is key.