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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by AVincentInSpace@pawb.social to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

I don't like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.

Not voting isn't going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he's publicly told Israel to "finish up their war". He'll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn't a straight cisgender male back here at home.

A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it's a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy's, and "sticking it to liberals" and "refusing to support genocide" (that's not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way -- a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.

How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump's campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?

I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I'll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.

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[-] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I'll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.

I'm a trans person. Here's what I'm most concerned about: the dehumanization of Palestinians and immigrants. Biden has gone along 100% with the dehumanization of these groups

how the fuck am I supposed to trust Democrats that claim to support trans people when this is how they support Palestine? This is a president thats supporting an ongoing genocide while persuing draconian immigration policies. Am I supposed to just throw those groups under the bus for my own personal gain?

You've made it abundantly clear that if Biden was pushing anti-trans policies, you'd still support him. You've made it clear there is absolutely nothing Biden could do that would lose your support.

[-] UNY0N@lemmy.world 32 points 7 months ago

It's not about support. It's not about 100% agreement with Biden's policies. It's about using your vote as a tactical choice to influece the government as best you can.

Each US citizen has three options: vote for Trump, vote for Biden, or don't vote. For me it's clear what the only viable choice is.

By all means protest. By all means vote undecided in the primary. Of course we should use other means to put pressure on someone like Biden to change his policies. But at the end of the day he's playing the tactical game too. And so is Israel, btw. They know that the US is weakened by the election cycle, that Biden's hands are tied right now by the need to retain centrist votes.

It's a practical decision, that should be made not based on an ideal world, but based on the real world in which we currently live and the options we actually have.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 7 months ago

How does commiting to voting for Biden this far out from the election influence his policy? If he knows he has the leftist vote, why would he change? Why would leftists give up the only leverage allowed to them to continue genocide and liberalism, rather than protest and force concessions from Biden?

[-] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I just want to add: this isn't only a leftists thing. This is a Michigan thing. It's Muslims and Arabs who are watching their brethren slaughtered.

[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 points 7 months ago

This is a key point. Biden is playing a dangerous game if he is serious about winning this.

I have no stats to back this, but I'd wager that leftists are more willing to concede and vote for Biden than Muslims and Arabs.

[-] UNY0N@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

It doesn't. We have limited options, the system is flawed.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago

So then protest against Biden as hard as you can, now.

[-] juergen@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 7 months ago

Absolutely do that. But still vote against Trump in November. And due to the aforementioned flaws, in a tight race, abstaining or voting 3rd party may be ideologically superior, but tactically ill-advised.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 10 points 7 months ago

Make up your mind, do you want people to protest or to make themselves safely ignorable by promising their votes six months in advance?

[-] UNY0N@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago
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