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this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2024
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I feel like this tells a lot about the state of the society we have where most people can't be what they want to be if they want to also make a living
ADHD is not a personal problem, it's a socioeconomic problem.
I mean it's both. Not being able to do your chores is bad no matter the society.
"doing your chores" is a sedentary live problem where people stay at the same place long enough that their traces are not erased naturally.
ADHD is the perfect mindset for a nomadic society. Stay to long at the same place (and risk ravaging its ressources)? No problem, you'll get bored before that happens and seek a new place!
Sedantarity and land owning is a problem to nomadic people everywhere 😁 Of course this is no longer valid in an overcrowded world like ours.
And it's bad because they're "chores" who "need to be done". In a different structure which recognised the needs of ADHD people those chores would never have been assigned to you in the first place.
I don't think dishes and laundry are a socio-economic problem unless you're implying all ADHD people should always be able to afford household help and assistance. Plenty of people with disabilities and challenges have to deal with chores as a function of being alive, including ADHD people. It's a part of existence that your clothes will need washing, trash will need to be taken out, and I agree that not doing them is a bad thing. The timetable, the consequences of inaction, the associated stress, all of that can be variable and that is where flexibility should be given, but ffs ADHD people should and need to do chores too.
Yes, I think adhd people who can't do housechores should have assistance for it, and in turn they would provide what they can to society. If that is not possible because "they can't afford it" then the system that requires monetary compensation is at fault.
There's plenty of people who like doing chores and don't like doing what adhd people are doing. These two groups can collaborate.
I don’t disagree with you, but I don’t see that happening for a while.
It’s hard enough to get people to say that people deserve to have food, water, and shelter.
Although this does sound like a great “Be the change you want to see in the world.” thing!
You could start a Facebook group or something in your town, make it like a co-op thing!
It's why I say it's a socioeconomic problem and not a personal problem.
Also my hands are quite full in the mutual aid department, 😁
Would I hate an ideal world where people with bad ADHD have people to cook and clean for them? No, but it's not social injustice; just life. It's a personal problem in the same way losing an arm is a personal problem; to an extent society has a responsibility to help you cope with it, but it still sucks to lose an arm.
I wonder if it comes from the whole 'nuclear family' concept from the '50s. Just the idea that each person, plus a partner and offspring, must be self-sufficient, living on their own little kingdom in the 'burbs. I often think about how if we took human differences and ability to specialize to apply to living conditions, and not just your job (which we aren't that great at either, but better), then we might be using bigger groups of people with more sophisticated living arrangements. But is that all just hypothetical, or do people actually live like that anywhere in the world or history?
Yes that's very close to the truth I believe. Humans and their ancestor species lived in such mixed societies for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years before they invented farming as hono sapiens . It's our natural way to organize.
No. You don't get to deny the very real PERSONAL harm done by this condition. No amount of socioeconomic changes could ever stop the personal problems.
Nobody denies ADHD causes personal harm. But the cause of that harm is the rigid society not being facilitating to people with ADHD.
Societies are inherently rigid. Getting one person to change takes a hell of a lot less time and effort than getting 200 million of them to change.
Yes which is why millions of neurodivergent people mask to fit in and suffer as a result. What's your point?
I think it's a personal problem too, because the human condition itself demands certain tasks that we might struggle with, but I absolutely understand what you're saying.
Despite my positives with ADHD, like being able to flip between constant emergencies all day, and getting constant praise for my work, my last job was threatening to fire me because they noticed I was 1 minute (literally 60 seconds) late a few times.
Good riddance to 'em, they had no idea how much effort it took to get within that margin with traffic patterns that change literally every day. They were also okay with getting there ridiculously early and jusy idling their SUVs in the heat until they could go in. Clown world.
I find that's somewhat of a norm systematically. Society will think it's "fair" to hold everyone to a standard of constant ridiculous feats of executive function that have no tangible effect on outcomes, measured by raw numbers at face value, and use this "data" to determine your worth as a person.
yes, but this a very clear example of what exactly I'm saying, no? This is not a requirement of human nature or something. It's just an idiot boss.
Absolutely! I guess I wasn't arguing against you so much as saying "Well it's a bit of both."
ADHD makes society's ridiculous mandated coercion much more difficult, but it also gets in my own personal way when there's things I want/need to do and it purposely sabotages me, y'know?
It definitely creates a negative feedback loop. Socioeconomic pressures on ADHD brains make the personal tasks worse, which in turn make the socioeconomic ones more difficult, and round and round we go...
I'm glad we can agree mutually on something with absolute certainty though: my boss was indeed, an idiot. 😉
Like how else is it supposed to work currently? Who wants to deal with people's trash? Who wants to transport people around at 4 am in his bus AND have to deal with the shit attitude of people on top? Etc.
Some people like doing work like that, the thing is just that these jobs are treated like trash and underpaid
You know, that’s a great point. I’d totally do a “shit job” if it paid decent and be a ton happier. I’m trying to organize and lead and only doing it for the money, and I hate it.
Yup. There's an appeal to a simple job that you can just do and no larger stress beyond the physical. But if that job involves waste of assorted kind, then you gotta pay enough and treat people with dignity.
I enjoyed working as a dishwasher, but I'm 6'3 so my back hated it.
For me it's more of a neck problem usually when I'm cooking or washing dishes and I'm only 6'
Everything in this world was made for someone at least 6 inches shorter than me.
Thorsquint.jpg
Liking something and settling for something are very different things. Most of society is built up around excellence and providing those who can with opportunities to do so.
The big issue with this is that it can make tons of people feel guilty for never living up to their aspirations. Mediocrity is frowned upon yet it's the majority of the bell curve.
Go to a job you don't hate, don't hurt others, enjoy life when you can.
Not everyone wants to get the "greatest" career path with getting a bachelor etc, sadly I don't really have anything outside of anectdotal evidence that there are really people that prefer doing a job like garbage worker or cleaner.
I don't really get what you are trying to say
You can say things without a point, or dis/agreement to someone else.
I know but what you are replying to my comment so I was searching for a point
Everyone respects a person who is doing a job well.
It’s only when people aren’t, that we notice at all.
We need to compensate people well for this sort of work. There are a lot of people doing this work right now who are not compensated fairly for this work.
Good point, there are tons of people who can do it. Hence no need to pay them much, since enough do it for less. How to change that? If the people above, saying they would do it for more money, actually do it... What about those doing it now? You only need so many bus drivers etc. and obviously when too many apply higher qualifications will win. Can they do what they did previously?
That's the funniest thing about payscales and such. They're far from the meritocracy we're sold from our first birthday.
Ask France what happens when their garbage stops going out.
Or hey, you also mentioned bus drivers, I couldn't pick just one article about city and school bus drivers striking, but in road-dominated societies, that's a pretty big deal.
So really, a ton of this is simply recognizing who does the work that actually keeps society going. If people like waste management and transportation and other services were actually treated with respect, they also wouldn't have to deal with as much "shit attitudes" either.
But instead, they're constantly pointed at by the communities they serve, who say things like "You don't wanna be a garbage hauler or bus driver...study hard so you can one day sit in a corporate office and make six figures contributing nothing to society!"
That changed sometime in the last 10-20 years.
Now you hear people talking about how good those jobs are and how well they pay.
I’m like 99.9% certain that change happened because of those robot arms on garbage trucks.
That’s all it really took.
They still pay well, and it is not all sunshine and roses, a dump will still stink and trucks will still have to be washed, but it’s not anywhere near as backbreaking now.