548
nuanceposting
(lemmy.cafe)
Important clarification/FAQ
I am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!
I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)
Very good comments that express key points:
- Detailed summary of the situation if you're wondering what's going on
- The rhetorical value of the bear hypothetical and what this means for you
- One example of why the long-term rhetorical value of the hypothetical is poor, in the context of intersectionality
- What does disenfranchisement mean in this context?
- The importance of not asking women to tone down their expressions of fear and frustration
- "But why can't they just say it nicely?"
- The importance of participation in kindness toward young men, specifically outside the context of people speaking their experiences
Edit: This post has now been removed and restored twice. I want to encourage you all:
Be decent to one another
I think this post is a valuable thing given the current state of the Fediverse, please don't fuck it up for us by being toxic in the comments.
I think you're misunderstanding the point of the meme then
Not really. It's saying to soften the language. I disagree. I say explain the language and why that level of anger is justified. The boys will quickly realize and be told that it's not about them. They'll likely also be just as mad at the s*** that goes on.
Kids are smart. If you tell them that women would pick a bear because a small percentage of men rape a large percentage of women, they'll get that.
Women: "men are horrible rapists"
Men who are not rapists: "hey that's pretty insulting"
Women: "oh not you, you're one of the good ones"
Men who are not rapists: "oh well in that case please proceed with your sexism"
??
Dogs bite people. Never pet a dog you don't know.
Outlets shock people. Always check the fuse is off at the circuit breaker.
Men are strong and brave. We draft them for war.
You're hearing a sound bite and jumping to conclusions because your brain thinks it's about you and gets defensive. It's not about you. Not everything is about you. That's was the hardest thing for me to learn as a generic white dude. Some things aren't about me, aren't for me, and that's ok.
I feel like you are overlooking the fact that bears are dangerous too! Yeah, you will probably be fine. But you might get mauled. I don't think anyone is arguing there is zero risk to being alone in the woods with a random man. It's a question of which is more dangerous. The original bear vs man statement is so vague that it's hard to answer scientifically but I maintain my original stance that most women who were alone in the forest with a random bear would choose to switch to a random man once they realized what that felt like.
I think what many men, myself included, find rather upsetting is the assessment of the risk men represent by feminists. If someone said "I would rather jump out of an airplane with a trash bag for a parachute than fly next to a Muslim" that would be offensive to Muslims. Even if you tried to justify that statement with your reply above... it would still be offensive.
Let's assume, though it's silly, that death is inevitable in the scenario. A bear isn't going to torture you or rape you. It's a quick death. Can man guarantee me the same?
Making some weird race comparison is racist because someone's race doesn't dictate their maximum cruelty. However, their species does.
But if there were some religion where you only got into heaven by torturing people slowly, then your analogy would be apt. Those people on a whole would have a higher maximum cruelty.
This isn't really true though? Bears aren't cold calculated killers. If you were to fully accept death, slit your own carotid, whatever, sure, that would work, you'd die within like the next thirty seconds, whatever, which, I guess you could do in either scenario really, so, kind of a moot point. But bears, man, getting attacked by a bear is brutal. I dunno how many post-bear attack victims you've seen but it's not pretty or quick. Bears will bat at you with their claws defensively if you try to defend yourself at all, down to the bone, they'll put their weight on top of you and crush in your ribcage making it extremely hard to breathe and impossible to scream, leading to internal bleeding, and then when you're incapable of movement because your spinal column is crushed and the adrenaline starts wearing off, it drags you off where it can start gnawing on you and ripping out your entrails.
Bear attacks are pretty horrifying, getting attacked by wildlife is no joke. I feel like a lot of people don't have firsthand knowledge, but the bears, they are grisly.
Most countries literally have laws against that, they're just not applied to straight white men😂
Dogs bite people. But better to pet a dog than a lion.
Outlets shock people. I'd rather use an electric heater than set a fire in my house.
This is the bear meme. It's not about the thing. It's about the comparison.