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lemmy stop silencing SA survivors rule
(lemmy.cafe)
The number of examples I have seen of people being told to shut up about their lived experiences with sexual abuse in the past 24 hours on this platform is deeply disturbing.
I am calling on y’all to take a deep breath and listen to women for once. There is a time and place for tone policing and it’s never the very minute a woman speaks up.
It's clearly ragebait, but let's be real here: the amount of accusations against men in general is astounding. Not the real, actual cases, but the implication that by virtue of being male I'm immediately accused of being a predator. And that's just shitty.
I can understand that a lot of men feel very attacked by that, because a whole lot of men just try to be good people. This kind of ragebait is harmful, because it will definitely turn a bunch of men hostile towards anything feminism, since in their view, they can only lose. And that's incredibly bad.
Gee, I wonder if there are other groups of people who have been painted with one brush. Perhaps the is a group that is assumed to be less skilled at STEM jobs. Or another group assumed to be more prone to criminal behavior. Wouldn't that just be something? /s
We men, especially we white men, get a fraction of the same treatment women and minorities have been getting for hundreds of years and freak out over how unfair it is. And that's an excuse to demand everyone use kid gloves when talking about these issues?
If you're only doing the right thing because people recognize you for it, I suggest you may not really be doing the right thing. If you're a good person, then you should understand why the average woman may show fear and caution when encountering an unknown man.
Things like the bear meme aren't asking about YOU. When people say "I'd rather choose the bear than a man" they aren't saying every man. Yes, the generalization stings when you think about it being applied to yourself. But if you truly understand the issues and the hypothetical you understand that the answer isn't about you. It's about what women have learned to expect when encountering a man they don't already know well enough based on prior experience
So discrimination is okay if it hits the right people?
Again, an entire group is set out to be predators for no fault of their own.
I'm portrayed as a predator, because some idiots are, and I'm supposed to view that to reflect myself, because some other people are also treated badly? That doesn't make sense. This is purely parroting the party line, chastising oneself what an evil counterrevolutionary one is.
No positive, but tons of new hostility. Awesome. That'll take humanity in the right direction!
You're not listening. YOU are not portrayed as a predator. YOU need to take a backseat for the betterment of the lives of the victims of injustice. Just because something isn't your fault doesn't mean it's not your responsibility to deal with it when you are in the class of people benefitting from the injustice.
As the other commentor said: punching up is very, very different than punching down.
When a specific person treats you, specifically, poorly because you're a man, THEN you can talk about how you are not a threat, and try to convey that you are actually an ally (which is questionable based on your reactions here). But when there is a conversation about average behavior and expectations, side with the victims. You are not a victim. You do not lose more than you gain from being a man. Maybe you get weird looks when you're solo-parenting but you still make $1 to a woman's $0.79 or whatever the number is today for soemeone in the same job.
So please, stop focusing on yourself. It's selfish. Try to think about the bigger picture. And yeah, take one for the team when it comes to memes about bears
Tell me, exactly, how I am not meant? I'm a man, men are portrayed as universally dangerous. How am I not implied here?
Thinking I'm not meant is wishful thinking. And it's extremely interesting, that suddenly I'm portrayed by you as a bad guy, because I say "hey, I'm not a bad guy, why do you call me that?". I explicitly mentioned the very real predators. But you ignored that.
And thinking like yours is exactly why there's so much hate. I don't subscribe to the party line, that men have to shut up and just have to accept that they are all potentially vile beasts, and thus I have to be one of the vile beasts. Don't you see that? Do you really don't see what you're doing here? You're creating the us vs them chasm. You're alienating people because you're just now actively accusing me of being a bad guy. And yes, it's about me, because I'm a man and this meme is about men. I'm in it. Just like you are.
You're still not listening and it's obvious you don't want to. You seem incapable of stepping outside of your own lived experience and considering the experience of others. You take everything personally, rather than looking at why the generalization might be valid even if you consider yourself an exception.
I'm a 6'1" burly, hairy, white guy with a deep voice. My wife knows I couldn't hurt anyone. The stranger on the street does not. So I don't take it personally when women get startled in public if I'm unexpectedly boisterous near them. And I wouldn't take it personally if, given the chance, a woman chose to create space between us on an empty street at night.
The fact is, other men have made the world harder for us. And that sucks. But not nearly as hard as they make it for women. So if you're going to be pissy with anyone, aim your disdain at the shithead men who created this situation instead of the women who just want to feel safe.
It's easy to demand women "don't discriminate" against you. It's hard to demand men behave better. That's the difference between punching up and punching down. Learn to punch up instead of taking the easy way.
And to head off the obvious counter argument: it's different than race because men actually, demonstrably hold positions of power and privilege over women simply by being men. The same is not true of skin color, etc. Again, punching up vs punching down.
Why didn't you reply to neatchee's reply? Did you realize you're wrong and don't know how to backtrack?
Literally yes. It's called punching up, and it's pretty well accepted, culturally. It's basically the only trade-off to being vastly more likely to achieve economic and societal status.
And you think that's helpful?
We're not talking about an enslaved group here, but women. Yes, disadvantaged in many areas, but far from being universally inferior in every aspect. If I'm punching up, you know, who I hit? Several women. Hell, my chancellor has been a woman for literally the majority of my life.
Again, what does this achieve? Hostility of those who don't want to be put on the same level as rapists. Instead of blaming the very real predators for their very real crimes, they're blaming every man for being a man. That's not punching up.
You're doing that thing where you accuse black people of being lazy because you were poor once but managed to work hard and find a good job.
In society, women are beneath men. Would you care to argue they're not?
Why do you keep self-including into bizarre categories like this?
"This trend is kinda prejudiced."
"Good, because prejudice is bad!"
Some people do not know what they want.
get fucking over yourself, youre what im talking about
Then tell me: how is helping anyone?
Do you seriously believe, that this changes anything to the positive?
Ya it shows how many men really are a bunch of fragile bitches and are outing themselves, its great for women.
Im a man and i know im fucking awesome so im not triggered or offended when women say they would rather be in the forest alone with a bear. Which i also completely understand because most women have had truly awful experiences with a man.
Id rather be in the woods with a bear than a man like you and im not scared of being sexually assaulted, men like you just annoy the ever loving shit out of me.
I don't normally upvote flagrant trash talk but gotdam this is so on the nose for the issue at hand that I can't help it. Can't unilaterally condone the tone but if there were ever a time, place, and subject, this is it
im just sick of stupid people who lack basic empathy and then still try to play the victim. Like holy fucking shit if you wouldnt attack or rape a women then they arnt talking about you, but for whatever reason some men feel the reason to band together when they are slightly threatened in the least. Ive had bad experiences with every type of person under the sun, no one group of people is perfect but i also understand that isnt representative of the entire people. However i can say that i as a man the majority gender causing bad experiences are unfortunately men. I know how truly dangerous some men are and how some view and treat women.
The bear analogy is actually perfect.
For the most part bears even a grizzly if it sees you first, you dont startle it, and you respect them and keep your distance wont harm you or attack you.Even if they do charge its been shown standing your ground works at scaring them off.
Unfortunately if you're a women alone the same thing cannot be said for seeing a lone man in the woods.
An unknown man to a lone women is truly a wild and chaotic thing. Most women unfortunately think ” is he gonna harass me, bother me, not leave me alone, assault me, intimidate me, or murder me.” Thats something that goes through most womens minds every single so fucking day.
So it pisses me off how so many lack a shred of common decency or understanding and immediately start huffing and puffing about how they are not like that.
Motherfuckas like that make me so fucking mad LIKE HOLY SHIT HOW ARE WOMEN CAPABLE OF KNOWING THAT JUST AT A GLANCE WHAT TYPE OF MAN YOU ARE. most serial killers where and are charming individuals.
if a man told me they dont wanna be in the woods alone with a women because they scared i wouldnt judge them either.
Too many men truly lack the understanding of what most women go through in their daily lives and its so fucking sad for the women who then have to deal with that bullshit. the sadder part is that many men DONT want to learn or understand.
And that is the patriarchy in a nutshell: a system that is advantageous to men, and then teaches men to consider any critique of that system as a whole, rather than of individuals, a threat or insult to be stamped out with vehemence. The people who do this shit genuinely believe that it's unfair to be treated this way, never realizing that their attitude provides the infrastructure that allows thereally bad people to continue doing what they do.
It's like ACAB; it doesn't necessarily mean that every cop will abuse a minority given the chance, but that nearly every cop actively participates in a system that enables and protects the abuse of minorities, and that it is impossible to distinguish who the select few truly "good" cops are.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Even if they do charge its been shown standing your ground works at scaring them off.
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LMFAO youre such a stupid bitch. Id completely understand if a muslim didnt want to be in the woods alone in the woods with a jew or if a jew didnt want to be alone in the woods with a muslim. Wanna know why? Cuz i know both of them are capable of extreme hatred and prejudice. Just like most women know most men are capable of extreme violence especially when they are left alone with a a man. You getting your panties in such a twist over this truly shows how fucking pathetic you are. And cuz i am fucking awesome and you fucking suck loser. And no i dont care about my entire gender being framed because i know who i am and i know how shit most men are.
Like you. Youre shit cunt.
Oh! We're doing race.
Would you say it's okay for a black man in the 1860s to say that very white american towns make him kinda nervous? Or like, a town in Idaho today.
Any man who turns hostile to women because of a bear meme was hopeless to begin with. Feminism isn’t convincing sexist men to not be sexist, it’s educating and empowering women to stand up for themselves and stop accepting vile behaviour by vile men.
Look, the bear meme was annoying but understandable, but the way that people are immediately attempting to character assasinate anyone annoyed by it or attempting to have a nuanced discussion about it is pushing people away.
That's essentially your point.
It's less about being a predator and more about taking responsibility for the power the average dude can wield over women. Women are taken less seriously and have less social authority by default in comparison to men. On top of that, most men can physically overpower most women, a fact that doesn't care about your feelings.
Even men should respect the danger other men can pose. Most murders are men killing men, so it's not like men are safe. Be humble, understand the dangers, and have thicker skin when people tell you unpleasant truths.
Imagine saying that to a woman being catcalled.
Are you being catcalled right now?
I didn't realize this discussion was happening outside of your house. Is there a garden I shouldn't be stepping on?