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Secret Hamas Files Show How It Spied on Everyday Palestinians
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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Read the article, it’s very informative for once.
So the sources for all that are Israeli IDF spooks, none of it is independently confirmed, the writters are Israelis in Israel, this newspaper has been caught not long ago printing pure Propaganda for Israel and the timing of all this "information" "coming out" is right smack when Israel is preparing to go into overdrive in their Genocide which is justified as being to "eliminate Hamas".
Curiously if all of what Israel says is to be believed (including what they provided for this "article"), they're killing Palestinian civilians in huge numbers to supposedly get rid of their oppressors, a level of doublespeak we hadn't seen since Bush caused 1.4million Iraqi deads whilst claiming America was "freeing Iraqis from the murderous dictator Saddam Hussein").
It's funny that whilst originally I was inclined to believe the idea that Hamas are pretty straightforward authoritarians with a secret police and everything, after reading the article with a proper analyst's eye (analysis of information being something I have professional experienced in) I have actually put that predisposition to believe it aside since that piece is written by people who are not even in a position to be unbiased, for a newspaper which is heavilly biased, anchored on paperwork provided by a single-source who are the spooks of the very army commiting Genocide and murdering children in cold blood in Gaza, and which of course has not been independently checked, and comes at a time when this type of story is exactly what the nation all of the above are biased in favour of would want to spread to reinforce their long running Propaganda messaging, so one can only conclude this hit piece almost certainly the most pure unadulterated Propaganda imaginable.
Since you’re a “propaganda expert” what would be the intention and desired outcome by the IDF releasing this?
"Hamas is Evil, hence why we have to attack Rafah to get rid of them."
I mean, "Hamas is Evil hence everything is morally acceptable to getting rid of Hamas" is the sole foundation and support for ever single evil action of Israel such as destroying hospitals killing medical personnel ("they're Hamas", "Hamas was there", "there was a Hamas tunnel under it"), blow up entire blocks with 2000lb bombs ("we were targetting a Hamas operative"), blow up school playgrounds ("we were targetting a Hamas operative") and so on.
The more Evil Hamas is made to look the more "Moral" justification the IDF has to do destroy and murder everything Palestinian claiming that it's to "destroy Hamas", as Netanyahu frequently says.
There is literally no other moral argument from Israel for their Genocide. These people aren't even especially imaginative.
So this story is just adding another bit of cement on that very same structure supporting the actions "the most moral army in the World" and it's not even especially important: it even has the wiff of Military Intelligence bureaucrats coming up with something to show the boss they're doing some work and it getting published because the New York Times has no journalistic criteria at all when it comes to stories that portray pro-Israel in a good light (probably has no journalistic criteria at all for anything).
You need to be trying really, really hard to imitate the Three Wise Monkeys when it comes to Israel, to not yet have noticed that "we have to get rid of Evil Hamas" is their only justification for doing the most evil stuff imaginable.
Theirs is such a stupidly simple strategy that is painfully obvious for those with even the smallest amount of brains who aren't hasbara sockpuppets, no need for "propanda expertise" (whatever that is).
So that’s why you believe this is propaganda versus a true account of what’s happening?
For someone so adamant in their conviction it comes across weak af. I am much more inclined to believe the Palestinians. Your wall of text does not negate that fact.
Israel has finally lost in the court of public opinion, no matter the amount of manipulation
Conviction?!
You're clearly coming at it from the point of view of the indoctrinated - you pre-believe something (i.e. are prejudiced) and then seek a way to interpret reality to yield "conclusions" that match your conviction and are not at all even trying to analyse it rationally.
Any rational analysis of this "article" in the current context and given the past explicit biases and actions of those who participated in making it will yield the conclusion that what's in there has a high probablility of being Propaganda and cannot be trusted to be truthfull.
It really boils down a pretty old principle: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". I totally understand defaulting to believe anything sourced from the IDF and delivered via the NYT in the past, before all this started, but at this point after all they said that turned out to be outright lies along with what they did using such lies as justification, we're very much on the domain of "shame on you" when it comes to such sources as the New York Times and the IDF.
Does it mean this article is with absolute certainty Propaganda and not actually true? Of course not: there is a small probability that it's not Propaganda, since like "Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction" there is a core of believability to it (which curiously is both like a true story AND like the best Propaganda), so only time will tell if it's mostly true or if, like the "weapons of mass destruction", it is just Propaganda.
The rational take on this article (so, not the take of those driven by something irrational like conviction, which is why I so often emphasied Skepticism and Analysis on my posts on this) is to treat it as having zero informational value, unless independent information arises that clarifies it.
You keep mentioning Iraq’s supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction justification which Bush spewed out. You might be surprised not everyone believed it. War is a racket, we know this. It is common knowledge not a propaganda conspiracy.
This article may be propaganda (highly doubt it though).but the Motives and intentions line up perfectly so yea I’m gonna believe the religious zealots are acting as religious zealots.
Regardless of your doubt, plus lengthy attempt to discredit the source and dissuade people from reading the article. It sounds not just plausible but likely. Sometimes motives, intentions and outcomes line up perfectly. As truth does. As always think critically and believe what makes sense to you personally
Since you’re a “propaganda expert” what would be the intention and desired outcome by the IDF releasing this?
Edit: added a question
Gullibility is not a virtue
When you get conflicting information on a crime scene, you gotta make judgment calls. To not find Israel guilty is being intellectually dishonest and ignoring reality
When the crime scene is a mass grave and you're getting "conflicting information" from the serial killer's PR team
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
This piece has so many elements present in typical pro-Israel Propaganda (the IDF source, the absence of independent validation of what the source provided, the shamelessly pro-Israel newspaper, the Israli nationals writing it in Israel, the neat dovetailing with long running Israeli Propaganda messaging) that anybody with even the least amount of Skepticism or Analytical Experience will conclude that it should be treated as Propaganda until proven otherwise rather than believed real until disproven.
You need to want really really hard to see a swan here to think that this is a swan rather than a duck.
Yea, none of it aligns perfectly with what appears to have happened in real life. Netanyahu is completely credible and not a dishonest war criminal. There is no internal conflict in Israel. You’re probably right.
It didn't happen.
It only happens a little bit.
It happens and that's a good thing.
And it’s their fault