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Ireland, Spain and Norway to recognise Palestinian state (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

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Ireland, Spain and Norway have announced they will formally recognise a Palestinian state on 28 May, triggering an immediate response from Israel, which said it would retaliate by recalling its ambassadors from Dublin, Madrid and Oslo, and withholding vital funds from the Palestinian Authority.

The three European governments made the long-awaited announcements in coordinated moves on Wednesday morning that they said were intended to support a two-state solution and foster peace in the Middle East.

“We are going to recognise Palestine for many reasons and we can sum that up in three words: peace, justice and consistency,” Spain’s prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, told the parliament in Madrid, to applause. “We have to make sure that the two-state solution is respected and there must be mutual guarantees of security.”

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[-] Devorlon@lemmy.zip 14 points 5 months ago

dismantling the brutal apartheid regime

No where does that say dismantling Israel.

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one -5 points 5 months ago

that has colonised Palestine for 76 years.

So who are they talking about then?

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago

Dismantling Israel as an apartheid state and replacing it with a secular binational state that has equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis?

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Well that can't be what he thinks, I listed that as an option in my original response

Except this guy specifically said he hopes the current Israel is dismantled. At best they could be hoping that Israel changes into a better government, but I don’t think that’s their meaning.

But he clearly said

No where does that say dismantling Israel.

So what entity which has colonized Palestine for 76 years, but isn't the current Israel does he mean?

EDIT: Words have meaning, if the words you use don't mean what you mean, then admit that you used the wrong words and be more clear or else people must assume you mean what you say. Coming in after the OP and attributing meaning that they didn't give doesn't suddenly change what they said. A reminder, the original post was;

Hopefully this is a step toward dismantling the brutal apartheid regime that has colonised Palestine for 76 years."

[-] EurekaStockade@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

Dismantling the regime. If someone said we need to eliminate the Chinese Communist regime, would you think they want to destroy the entirety of China?

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I know I said we need to be clear in our language, but since we were talking about a "regime" from the beginning I didn't think I had to continuously spell it out throughout the discussion. Yes, we're talking about whatever regime is being referenced, but again the last guy said it wasn't Israel.

Regime Noun

a particular government or a system or method of government:

Your comparison between China and Israel is really terrible. If we're being super duper clear on what a regime is, it's the system of government. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, all citizens over the age of 18 can vote. Since the regime is democratically elected it's kinda hard to differentiate the Israeli people from their Regime. China on the other hand is a unitary one-party state, if you're not in the party and at the right level of the party then you don't have any voice. It's a lot easier to separate the people of China from their government.

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

So you do agree that Israel is a colonizer country?

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one 4 points 5 months ago

I don't really like the use of the word colonizer in this context, it just doesn't fit right with me. The definition technically fits, but colonization to me is more like an invasive species moving in and slowly overwhelming the native population. This is more akin to what we were seeing with settlers moving into the West Bank.

What's going on in Gaza is more akin to straight up scorched earth takeover and land theft. Hell, calling it an invasion and genocide feels more accurate.

I never said I was ok with what Israel is doing, my argument was on the meaning of words. Leftists in general are really terrible about saying what they mean, because they don't seem to know the meaning of the words they use.

The cycle seems to go like this:

make a statement
realize the statement doesn't mean what they wanted to say
double down and try to change the meaning of the words they used

[-] Eheran@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

I am sorry for the hard time you have here. People just want to see their believes confirmed.

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one 3 points 5 months ago

Hey, I appreciate your response! I totally understand that people want to have their feelings confirmed in such a space, but that's also why I am critical in it. In this sort of environment the discussion is almost as much emotion and feeling as it is the words actually used. A sort of slang can develop where we can understand what each other means without the words we use being truly accurate. The problem with that is that this environment is also an echo chamber, we put meaning onto things that we want it to mean because it also confirms our beliefs.

This leads to situations where it's impossible to differentiate between radical statements and reasonable statements. A good example is the chant, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free." When both extremists and normies use the saying it becomes hard to differentiate them. Another example is the Gadsden flag, on it's own there is nothing wrong with the flag with a deep historical heritage, but when the far right started using it as a symbol any rational centrist or leftist immediately stopped using it for fear of association. Back in school I had a friend who had the flag hanging on their wall, but around 2012 they specifically stated that they had taken it down because it had been co-opted by the far right.

this post was submitted on 22 May 2024

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