1784
While you were worried about socialism…
(lazysoci.al)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
1784 points (97.3% liked)
Lefty Memes
4290 readers
1365 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,
as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Please correct me if I'm wrong, and IANAL, but my understanding is that to own land (which would contain a house), in a country, you need to have a contract with the government where the land is, thereby identifying yourself as a foreigner.
It would seem that if this insane claim was actually a problem, where foreign persons were buying homes and then living in them, illegally in the USA for an extended period of time, that such a problem would be easy to solve?
"This home has been occupied by a Spanish speaking family, and it's owned by a Mexican citizen" would be a good reason for border services to go knock on the door and be like, who the hell are you people and do you have the legal right to be in the country?
IDK, but it feels like a problem that would fix itself.
Also, most illegal immigrants are fleeing their country with little more than the clothes on their back, nevermind enough cash to buy a house. I'm sure some rich people can do this but are they really the problem? If they want to live in the country and spend their wealth here, why would we want to stop them?
The whole argument is nonsensical to me.
Even if everything you say is true, where does this leave us in ~20 years when all of the children born here, who are now citizens, enter the housing market? Or the illegals who are granted citizenship which includes Dreamers plus any future actions?
I feel like illegal immigrants is less of a problem than you think it is.
But you're talking about the effects that would happen over multiple generations, all of whom come from essentially poverty conditions.
I am unable to count the number of people who became middle class from a poverty class family, because I'm not aware that it has ever happened. So any children of illegal immigration, who were born in the country who is now a citizen would probably fall into the poorest rentals and communities, which isn't capable of home ownership.
I'm middle class and I had to pair up with another family to break the cycle of violence that is renting. I'm 40 and I'll be 65 by the time we pay off the mortgage, at which time any savings from the mortgage is likely going to need to be fed into surviving, because inflation will have likely spiked the cost of everything to the point where we need that money just to buy food. I understand that's anecdotal, though I have seen others with similar stories. The only people I know of that are doing okay, bought a house in, or directly after college when the average price of a home was half of what it is now.
So if you ask me if these people are raising house prices, my answer is no, because the vast majority of them are impoverished. Those that are not, can afford the time, cost, and effort to go through the proper immigration process, and they become citizens.
Simply: rich/middle class foreigners are immigrating legally. Poor immigrants are coming over illegally with nothing, and given how ruthless our society is, they will not escape poverty in our lifetimes, and likely not in the lifetimes of our children, or their children. By the time they "become a problem" for the housing market, they will be 3rd or 4th generation citizens at a minimum, using their meager generational wealth to finally hoist themselves out of poverty.