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What can a city do when neo-Nazis start marching down its streets?
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
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You're fucking kidding me, right? You don't pre-arrest people. You arrest people after they've done shit.
God, why didn't we think of that brilliant solution before? How many left-wing lawyers and political organizations have simply overlooked that we can just make it legal to protest?
I see, this is one of these "never try" situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end and instead just call for other people to be arrested too.
Because we shouldn't want people to have rights, we should want other people's rights taken away.
No, it's apparently one of those noble martyrdom things, where the correct response to getting brutalized by Nazis is to roll over and show how very moral you are by just passively taking it.
You do realize that this is already happening to left-wing protesters, right? The only thing you're advocating for is that left-wing protesters get the full force of the state laid down on them while Nazis are allowed to roam free because "It wouldn't be fair" to apply the same goddamn laws to them as long as those laws are on the books.
You've convinced me. Never try to get back rights that were taken away from you. Just get vengeance.
Vengeance is when you show why mutual disarmament is a good idea instead of showing that you won't fight back, and the less you fight back, the less vengeful you are.
Got it. Fight back, but not for your rights which have been taken away from you.
You do realize a society can do more than one thing at a time, right?
Like, demanding police chiefs to arrest Nazis under the same circumstances that they arrest left-wing protesters is not going to magically diminish the work of left-wing lawyers and politicians to redefine the rules so that protesters, in general, are not being arrested. Even application is kind of the point of laws, and not simply allowing but actually advocating that an unequal application of the law be perpetuated (because it wouldn't be fair if the Nazis got the same treatment as left-wing protesters) is, itself, incredibly damaging to the legitimacy of the government as a whole.
Fuck's sake.
That... was literally what I was saying.
Read it again.
Okay, but it won't happen, so what's the point of demanding it rather than just working to redefine those roles and working to elect politicians who will do so?
It reminds me of some vegans who go out and protest meat eating. That's not going to stop people eating meat. Working on campaigns to convince people why they should stop eating meat is what should be concentrated on.
I do not see what demanding they be arrested accomplishes when you and I both know they won't be.
This you?
And furthermore, it's a lot easier to get cops to arrest people than to get cops to not arrest people.
I don't know how I could have been any more clear that I was being sarcastic.
... yes. You were being sarcastic. Which is what makes that response contradict your current point.
You mock the idea that we should never try to stop something because "We could never stop it", yet, then say, without any sarcasm or irony, "Okay, but it won’t happen so what’s the point of demanding it" on another issue.
Do you... not see the contradiction?
I'm saying arresting Nazis won't happen but changing the laws to make it so that protesters won't get arrested at all is a possibility, especially on a regional or local level.
One relies on the cops cooperating. The other relies on just telling them they can't even be there.
Yes, and you dismiss the idea of attempting it because "it will never happen" after mocking the approach of "It won't happen so why try".
I legitimately don't know how to simplify this any further.
Do you... do you think the cops listen when they're told not to be somewhere and they want to be there? Do you think that's not cooperation?
Yes. I think cops will not go places if they're told they will be facing things like fines if they do. They like getting paid.
And I think it's much easier to do that on a local level than telling them to go arrest the Nazis.
So there's the power to coerce cops to follow the law, but not the power to coerce cops to do their job and ensure others are following the law. Do we have the power to make cops enforce any laws?
You think it's easier to make cops respect people's rights than it is to get them to arrest people they don't give a fuck about.
Okay.
Yes. It's called money.
Yes, if it costs them money.