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Russia Mulls Forking Linux in Response to Developer Exclusions (cyberinsider.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by ahriboy@lemmygrad.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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[-] ganymede@lemmy.ml 33 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

personally i don't agree with sanctioning foss communities.

but fuckit, bring on more forks i say.

among other benefits, the scifi-type scenario of nations trying to patch eachothers backdoors and slip in new backdoors (and hopefully innovations). could make for an exciting OS space-race type scenario

[-] wewbull@feddit.uk -4 points 2 weeks ago

personally i don't agree with sanctioning foss communities.

Foss communities aren't being sanctioned. Whole countries are. It's the same limitation whatever enterprise you're in.

If Olympians have to renounce their country to take part in global competition, why do you not think a software developer wouldn't have to do the same to be involved in a global project?

[-] ganymede@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

this is a complex topic and probably belongs in a different thread.

essentially i don't personally believe in punishing citizens of a country for the actions of its politicians.

at best its misguided, at worse it basically empowers politicians on both sides who draw power from friction between citizens of different nations. typical divide and conquer bs.

why do you not think a software developer wouldn’t have to

wouldn't or shouldn't? if you mean wouldn't, it's not surprising and its not the dev's fault they have to comply with policy, so the criticism is not with them.

if you mean shouldn't, i don't agree with punishing athletes either, but regarding foss specifically, isn't the "friendly competition" of olympics equivalent to that? sort of. in some ways yes. in other ways its actually the opposite.

collaboration is actually the opposite of competition.

and while there's a case for the benefits of healthy sports competition, i don't believe it truly fulfills the spirit of international goodwill to the degree it says on the packaging. foss and other forms of international collaboration for the betterment of greater society are definitely on a higher rung - in my opinion at least.

[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 weeks ago

Probably better for BRICS countries to consider contributing to something different.

Realistically there's no feasible way for the US to block access to use the kernel, and even a soft fork of it will be laughably easy for glowies to exploit. There are a bunch of promising kernels that could be well suited for China and Russia's push towards RISC and ARM independence, whereas in Linux they'd be tasked with maintaining drivers and other systems that are a massive security vulnerability if you don't have total control over them.

I'd honestly even consider it a good idea for Russia to get the FSF to fight this considering it's a blatant violation of the GPL. Even if the president can just say whatever they like, at least you can make it embarrassing and expensive for the chauvinists gloating at the labour they exploited for years.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 13 points 2 weeks ago

I'd honestly even consider it a good idea for Russia to get the FSF to fight this considering it's a blatant violation of the GPL.

How is telling someone that you won’t accept their contributions anymore a violation of the GPL?

[-] velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
[-] 0x0@programming.dev 13 points 2 weeks ago

It'll be called BRICS Linux.

[-] evanstucker@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago

Please don't...

Can we organize and force the Linux Foundation and/or OFAC to exclude open source software from these sanctions? Is anyone doing that yet?

[-] korbel@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago

What would be the point of the sanctions then? If the Linux Foundation were against it they could move the infrastructure to an other jurisdiction which does not sanctize countries, that would carry a strong message. But if they refuse to do that, what's wrong with others' forking it and doing it? That's the point of opensource.

[-] JustMarkov@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It was expected. This is how "free" development becomes a victim of not at all free dogmas. It is also how already fragmented Linux development becomes even more fragmented.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 5 points 2 weeks ago

What “not at all free dogmas” are you referencing, and why is “free” in scare quotes?

[-] JustMarkov@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 weeks ago

What's free about delisting maintainers based on their country of residence?

[-] IRQBreaker@startrek.website -1 points 2 weeks ago

You do know that the maintainers delisted worked for russian companies that was sanctioned by the west? And if you feel somehow wronged by this, you are always more than welcome to emigrate to a country that aligns with your worldview.

[-] gomp@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 weeks ago

First of all, saying "based on their country of residence" is either grossly uninformed or (most probably) plain dishonest.

Ignoring that, the GPL-freedoms of companies subject to sanctions are still preserved, so.... having established that your "free" is not the same "free" as in "free and open source software", what the hell are you talking about?

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network -5 points 2 weeks ago

First, you’re acting like the decision was made by Linus or another member of the team and that they weren’t following the law.

Second, even if that weren’t the case, it’s still completely free. Unless you can name one of the following freedoms that was impacted by those actions:

  • Freedom 0: The freedom to use the program for any purpose.
  • Freedom 1: The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish.
  • Freedom 2: The freedom to redistribute and make copies so you can help your neighbor.
  • Freedom 3: The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the whole community benefits.
[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

All of those freedoms were directly impacted bozo.

And as for "Linus didn't do it", not only did they choose to comply with an order that directly violated the GPL, but in doing so he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers who have worked diligently on the kernel for years for the betterment of open software AND Linus' paycheck.

Calling your former volunteer contributors bots and state assets because of their home country is just straight up racist, especially when the only evidence of state-sponsored tampering in the Kernel has come from American institutions (that we even know of).

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 weeks ago

Literally none of those freedoms were impacted. Everyone is still free to use the program as they wish, fork it, make changes, etc.. Linux doesn’t have a new license that says “anyone but Russians” can use it.

he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers

How did he gloat? He explained the change. If your complaint is that he was abrasive, I feel like you’re not familiar with Linus.

Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.

It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting
reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to
"grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change
anything.

And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm
accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US
thing.

If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read
the news some day.  And by "news", I don't mean Russian
state-sponsored spam.

As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call
brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian
aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of
history knowledge too.

Sounds a lot more like he’s frustrated than delighted to me.

Calling your former volunteer contributors bots

He didn’t call the contributors bots.

He called the people submitting reverts and complaining about those maintainers, who weren’t contributors themselves, “troll farm accounts.”

and state assets because of their home country

When did he call anyone a state asset? To be clear, being a troll or a paid actor doesn’t make you someone’s property.

He also explained that this was a legal matter:

> Again -- are you under any sort of NDA not to even refer to a list of
> these countries?

No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that
I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers.

I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random
internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have
been riled up by them.
[-] Cysioland@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Check out the post history, this person is a Richard Stallman defender

[-] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

its quality will not be lower than usa linux, as they will pull latest development but not push back (to the linux list)

this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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