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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) by prototype_g2@lemmy.ml to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

I's heard news that BlueSky has been growing a lot as Xitter becomes worse and worse, but why do people seem to prefer BlueSky? This confuses me because BlueSky does not have any federalization technologies built into it, meaning it's just another centralized platform, and thus vulnerable to the same things that make modern social media so horrible.

And so, in the hopes of having a better understanding, I've come here to ask what problems Mastodon has that keep people from migrating to it and what is BlueSky doing so right that it attracts so many people.

This question is directed to those who have used all three platforms, although others are free to put out their own thoughts.

(To be clear, I've never used Xitter, BlueSky or Mastodon. I'm asking specifically so that I don't have to make an account on each to find out by myself.)


Edit:

Edit2: (changed the wording a bit on the last part of point 1 to make my point clearer.)

From reading the comments, here are what seems to be the main reasons:

  1. Federation is hard

The concept of federation seems to be harder to grasp than tech people expected. As one user pointed out, tech literacy is much less prevalent than tech folk might expect.

On Mastodon, you must pick an instance, for some weird "federation" tech reason, whatever that means; and thanks to that "federation" there are some post you cannot see (due to defederalization). To someone who barely understands what a server is, the complex network of federalization is to much to bare.

BlueSky, on the other hand, is simple: just go to this website, creating an account and Ta Da! Done! No need to understand anything else.

~~The federalized nature of Mastodon seems to be its biggest flaw.~~

The unfamiliar and more complex nature of Mastodon's federalization technology seems to be its biggest obstacle towards achieving mass adoption.

  1. No Algorithm

Mastodon has no algorithm to surface relevant posts, it is just a chronological timeline. Although some prefer this, others don't and would rather have an algorithm serving them good quality post instead of spending 10h+ curating a subscription feed.

  1. UI and UX

People say that Mastodon (and Lemmy) have HORRIBLE UX, which will surely drive many away from Mastodon. Also, some pointed out that BlueSky's overall design more closely follows that of Twitter, so BlueSky quite literally looks more like pre-Musk Xitter.

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[-] Brodysseus@lemmy.world 13 points 20 hours ago

Mainstream tech adoption needs a neat clean wrapper imo. I think that's the biggest missing piece to fediverse, people want pretty, simple, plug and play.

If a wrapper like that could be put on top of/combined with all the good qualities that the fediverse offers, I think it would create optimal conditions for slow adoption.

[-] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 2 points 16 hours ago

Agreed. There should have been a default place to sign up from the beginning. Leaning on federation as a feature is something very few people care about until they really care about it. The mass adopter just looks at where their favourite celebrity or talking head is and then move there.

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 10 hours ago

Like Mastodon.social? Afaik it has been around since the beginning and is basically the "default" server unless you're a "hacker" and you're on infosec.pub or whatever, an edgy 4channer and you're on poa.st, a SubGenius on "Bob's" server dobbs.town, or one of the many pervert servers, or one of the asain servers I can't read, but if you're on one of those (for instance dobbs.town) you're joining dobbs.town and mastodon is just there incidentally. Anyone else can just use .social and call it a day until they find out they're really into plants.space or some specific thing.

Hell all the people I've gotten on masto that's how I did it, "Ok make an acct on mastodon.social, great now lemme follow you what's your name? Cool, see there I am! Oh I'm not on mastodon.social, I'm on dobbs.town, but we can still communicate like how I email your gmail from my protonmail, is normal. Now, there's some servers you're gonna want to block..." I don't even tell them about federation until they're already there, unless I KNOW the server they'll want (like when I recommended my Discordian friend hop on discordian.social instead of mastodon.social.)

The real kicker is that none of their precious celebs they follow are on there, as you mention. The weirdos I talk to don't care about that so it works out for me lol.

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[-] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

It's the raison d'etre. Saying "don't federate" is like saying "don't put images and rich hyperlinking on the WWW, just make it like Gopher." If you don't want to federate, don't. But saying that it was a bad move for ActivityPub is just nonsensical.

[-] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 1 points 11 hours ago

I’m not saying don’t federate. I’m saying don’t talk about that as the primary feature when you’re enticing people to sign up to it.

[-] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago

BlueSky doesnt club you with nonstop Linux nerds

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

It’s more difficult to run government psyops on mastodon.

[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 hours ago

No it’s not, it’s federated

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 day ago

Mastodon being federated is absolutely not a flaw. This is how the internet was meant to work in the first place. The fact that people got used to using centralized platforms is an aberration and this needs to be actively fought against.

[-] prototype_g2@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago

I should have been more clear. I meant “The federalized nature of Mastodon seems to be its biggest obstacle to it achieving mass adoption”.

The post was about why Mastodon isn’t receiving as many user as BlueSky, or in other words, why it isn’t achieving mass adoption. It was under this context that I chose to use the word “flaw”, as in, flaw towards reaching mass adoption.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 12 hours ago

I don't think there's a lot of evidence that federation is a significant obstacle in practice. Email is a great example of a federated platform that even the least tech literate people are able to use just fine. It could be argued that Mastodon onboarding process could be smoother, but that's not an inherent problem with it being federated.

In my view, the simplest answer is that BlueSky has much better marketing because it has a ton of money behind it and it's been promoted by Dorsey whom people knew from Twitter. So, when people started abandoning Twitter, they naturally went to the next platform he was promoting.

I'd also argue that there is a big advantage to having smaller communities of users that focus on specific topics of interest and can federate with each other. In my experience, this creates more engaging and friendlier environment than having all the users on the same server. Growth for the sake of growth is largely meaningless.

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[-] Floon@lemmy.ml 71 points 1 day ago

You have to pick a Mastodon server, before you know anything about anything. The acquisition funnel probably drops 90% of the people checking it out right there.

[-] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 hours ago

You have to pick a microblogging service. What's the difference? Truth Social is just a mastodon instance, but it's commercial and it has marketing. That's all that's "missing" from any other fediverse instance, and thank fucking god.

[-] ILikeTraaaains@lemmy.world 6 points 19 hours ago

This, when I decided to join Mastodon I was prompted to choose a server and had to research which one should join and understand how it works.

It is called UX friction and is well studied in sign up and checkout processes, the more steps the user has to perform the more likely it abandons it.

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Felt the same about Lemmy when I signed up.

[-] Aeri@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

The only reason I actually wound up signing up on Lemmy is that there is one "main" instance by appearance, and it lets you participate in others(?). (Lemmy.world)

You don't need to know any of the more esoteric stuff to get going.

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[-] galerkin@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 day ago

☝️ This. It's why I put off signing up for Mastodon for a long time, even though I am a big supporter of the Fediverse.

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[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 169 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Because the mastodon evangelists are horrible.

Back when there was any question of what platform to migrate to? Threads and bluesky were "Get an invite and make an account"

Mastodon was people insisting that EVERYONE needed to understand what federation is and the underlying philosophy. When really they should have just said "Sign up for one of these instances. It is like email where it doesn't really matter what provider you have". Countless times I tried to explain to folk on a message board or discord and would say "Just make an account on one of these four or five instances". And, like clockwork, someone would "well ackshually" me and insist that people can't use Mastodon without understanding the fundamental concept of federation and how picking the right instance is important and people can just delete and remake their accounts until they are satisfied.

So when it was time for the big influencers to move? They went to where people were already congregating and where they didn't need to host an educational seminar to tell someone how to make an account.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago

Because the mastodon evangelists are horrible.

Yeah that's another thing, Mastodon is kinda nice, except for its userbase. :P

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 33 points 1 day ago

Honestly?

I vastly prefer almost everyone I have interacted with on mastodon over basically every lemmy user. Because lemmy still thinks it is reddit but also is totally over their ex but do you think he is thinking of me and can I send him a picture of your dick to show it is bigger?

Whereas mastodon? People kind of just want to talk. We largely understand that twitter has been a shithole for... most of its existence. So rather than try to reinvent it (bsky and threads) we are learning from it in the same way cohost learned from tumblr (and died even faster...).

And the lunatics who need to scream about what federation is and why it is The Future? They aren't talking about basically anything else. They are keeping to themselves and talking about how amazing the community can be... while the rest of us are actually being a community.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 2 points 21 hours ago

I mean, Lemmy is basically a big discussion forum to share links or get an argument going. You're obviously gonna get more confrontations.

Bsky/Mastodon/Threads is strangers yelling their thoughts into the void in between posts about their cats or pictures of themselves. Not exactly a place where most people will go in with the intention of dissenting.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 1 points 13 hours ago

And yet?

Mastodon is full of actual conversations between people. Someone says something. Someone else replies and an actual conversation happens where people respond to each other.

Lemmy? It almost always devolves into people trying to one up each other and aggressively talk at each other. It is like we speed ran reddit and went from "How dare you have a different opinion" to "I am going to cherry pick a sentence and build a whole fucking straw city from that".

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[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 38 points 1 day ago

You literally cannot search for Mastodon without getting a weird ass 2-paragraph manifesto about The Fediverse.

End users just want to use shit.

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[-] 4grams@lemmy.world 0 points 12 hours ago

same reason we just elected donald fucking trump. people will always take the easy option that makes them feel good.

People expecting a new Twitter when switching to Mastodon were met with weird behavior and nerds who told them the awful search function or weird comment count is working correctly because that's how federation works. Well if that's the case then federation is shit.

[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 57 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is unfortunately the world of open-source.

  1. Nerd tells you to use the open-source thing.
  2. Non-technical tries it and asks questions
  3. Nerd proclaims it's not a real problem/your fault/not applicable/fix it yourself
  4. Some company takes that open-source version or idea, makes it easier for end users and monetize it
  5. Nerd gets angry and repeats step 1

Source: I am nerd and I contribute to open-source.

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[-] Tehhund@lemmy.world 74 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm on both Mastodon and Bluesky. To me, Mastodon's biggest problem is its refusal to have an algorithm to surface popular content. Yes there are problems with algorithms, but I don't have the time or inclination to read every post in chronological order. A good algorithm would show me popular posts without manipulating me for profit.

Edt: a few people have misunderstood me. I'm not proposing "Mastodon shows me stuff from people I don't follow," I'm suggesting "Mastodon shows me stuff only from people I follow, but it shows me the popular stuff first."

[-] EvilCartyen@feddit.dk 41 points 1 day ago

Problem with algorithms showing popular content is that once you have them, you'll have people trying to use them to make money. And by extension people trying to manipulate you for profit. Doesn't have to be the platform itself doing it for it to be harmful.

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[-] butsbutts@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago

the discovery on bsky is pretty nice, i dont see an equivalent on my masto instance

[-] airportline@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 day ago

Bluesky is way more approachable than Mastodon. Most people don't want to have to learn what an instance is.

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[-] Alice@beehaw.org 15 points 1 day ago

Personal answer: I draw art for a stupidly niche internet community. I'm a less popular artist so I go wear the community already is. I found one other artist on Mastodon and several on Bluesky.

[-] golden_zealot@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago

It's lack of marketing since it is not a business, and people conflating useful optional features with confusing usage.

Everyone I know moved to bluesky, after which bluesky basically immediately sold out to crypto people. I brought up the idea of "hey, this is why I think mastodon is a lot better, because it's impossible for it to sell out entirely", to which one person lost their fucking shit and responded stating that I was "fear mongering".

This person also said they didn't care if a business owned all their data and controlled their entire life because "all their data is owned already anyway".

This same person also said that after the recent US election they "spent the night throwing up until they were dry heaving and crying".

Why they claim to not care about their life being controlled by corporate entities, but claim to care so hard about their life being controlled by a government that they say they have a physical reaction to it is a subject I haven't broached because I'm sure they wouldn't be able to see their hypocrisy if they pointed the James Webb telescope at themselves.

In a nut shell, many people are incredibly stupid and not at all interested in their best interests unless the news tells them which interests they should care about.

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[-] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 45 points 1 day ago

Because in Bluesky, you open the app, create an account, and you’re good to go.

Federation is way too complex of an idea for the average person. Picking a server and then understanding instances is much too complicated.

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[-] That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 day ago

.....BlueSky does not have any federalization technologies built into it, meaning it's just another centralized platform, and thus vulnerable to the same things that make modern social media so horrible.

Ask your average social media user what any of that means and you'll get blank stares.

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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
213 points (96.1% liked)

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